Wow, I make a post which actually wasn't aggressive at all, but I felt my tone might be misconstrued as rude so deleted it not wanting to offend you and you reply by trying to wind me up. Your just an annoying old man.
UKIP are for these changes as it'll allow them more power, and allow them to exert more pressure on the extreme right backbenchers in the Tory party to promote UKIP policies. It's the same way that the Lib Dems pushed for the Alternative Vote, and how the Greens and others are pushing for Proportional Representation, while the Tories are pushing to redraw the constituency lines to make it easier for them to win the next elections. And I'd hardly call any of them anti-establishment (except maybe the greens). Where the money comes from matters hugely, as that is where the driving force for the parties direction and its policies. As is their contacts in encouraging others to defect to the party, or their media contacts. As such I don't find it a coincidence that the majority of defectee's to UKIP have been right wing Tories, while the main newspaper backing of UKIP is the right-wing Express and Mail.
I think the particular policies of the smaller parties you've mentioned are all anti-establishment in so much as they challenge the way things are done and if put into place would change the way the country does politics and the power people have to choose there representation within the House of Commons. It's definitely not a pro establishment stance. And again whilst the funding for parties will be based on political persuasion it doesn't change the current viewpoint of the party and lots of it's voters (and voters of the other small parties) that our political system needs change and needs to be more accountable to the voting public.
Ok, so I won't bother responding with actual points and my reasons because you're obviously not interested in having a discussion you just want to repeatedly give one line replies about how your right.
Why do you think that UKIP want the introduction of referendums in issues on the back of petitions, afcftw? It's ****ing Daily Mail politics. Demonise something or other, write endless stories about it blaming it for the demise of society, then call for action against it. The right-wing press own the political sphere from the back of this bullshit at the moment. It's hardly surprising that their new party is trying to make them even more powerful, is it? What would be first on the agenda? The gradual destruction of the BBC, by any chance? Could you please explain how Farage isn't part of the establishment, by the way? You've been asked a few times and I've yet to see anything even approaching an answer. He ticks every single box.
But UKIP direction and viewpoints are in the main pro-hardline Tory and Eurosceptic, and as such, besides a few differences is mainly a different type of the same animal, and very establishment, except for the fact that they'd want UKIP to be in it this time. There's be no revolutionary change, no great shake up, just the same public school boy, rich, big business background (or jobs with the big business promised after office) politicians as before. All the same scare mongering and deflecting the blame as the current ones. The only difference is that these ones are more overtly racist and much more passionately anti-EU! That's quite a difference from being anti-establishment.
The reason I haven't responded about Nigel farage being establishment is because it was irrelevant to the point I was making. Farage has been in and around the system for a long time now and he works as a politician. Of course to varying degrees all those trying to make a difference through the current system become a part of the establishment. The point I was making is that it doesn't matter individually how establishment anyone thinks Farage is. The written policy within the parties manifesto includes a lot that would be considered anti-establishent and would change the way we do politics. As for why UKIP want referendums for petitions with enough support I really couldn't care less, the important thing is the tool for people to force government into action. Plenty of people support causes which are brushed under the carpet and ignored because it's not within the interests of the two main parties to pursue them, or they are deemed too controversial. This would give people the opportunity to take action and know they can make an impact. And anything which encourages people to be involved with politics and making our country and the world a better place, should be encouraged.
As you say PleaseNotPoll - it'll be a rapid death of the BBC (something we'll all lament once it's gone, and its too late), as it's the only media organisation that gets anywhere near being objective (not that it's truly objective), and for that the Tories lambast it for being a 'lefty organisation attacking the tories'. But of course, it's just an unintentional aside that without the BBC then the Tories grip on the countries media, and their control of communication with the masses would strengthen, while Rupert Murdoch would get immeasurably richer as Sky profits from the BBC's demise...
All political parties accuse the BBC of political bias especially the party of government it's always been that way
People need to understand the bigger picture, only then will you understand what is really going on around us. You think any of these public school boys give a toss about the common man. They have their own objectives and it is all tied in to the establishment. The BBC has been gradually being going over to the dark side for years, with biased reporting. But nothing compared to the tripe that Sky and Fox come out with. For me, these are the worst of the worst, spreading their lies and hatred to the ignorant and docile masses.
Your ignoring my point. Which is that RE the establishment and how it works, UKIP policy, along with lots of the small left wing parties, is to change the way politics works through proportional representation, auto referendums and the ability to remove an MP by constituents. The Lib Dems gave us a great example of how a party can have strong views for changing the way things are done and change the political system only to fail to deliver and take a nose dive in support and success. So I'd imagine if UKIP or any other party manage to get any significant power off the back of this notion of bringing power back to the people that they will be held accountable by those same people who put them in power. Which on a tangent is a total contrast to the labour and Tory voters who continually allow the parties to break promises but continue to vote them in. I don't think every UKIP policy is about bringing down the government or some kind of anarchistic overthrow of our country, but within it's manifesto are a selection of policies which would help to rebalance power (and they are views held similarly by some of the smaller left wing parties).
Farage was a part of the establishment before he became a politician. That's why he did it. He has no interest in the welfare of the common man. He's showed that with his voting record at the EU. How do you think this tool against the government is going to work? Whatever's popular gets pushed forward? I look forward to a member of One Direction being made Prime Minister or King or something, then. Let's see, what's at the top of the UK's agenda on Change.org? Bring Back Jeremy Clarkson. This move has nothing to do with encouraging people to get involved in politics. Quite the opposite. It's a clear move to enable the pricks that run most of the media to conduct their own witch-hunts.
We already have PR for elections in this country so campaigning for it for Westminster elections is hardly anti-establishment
Yes but my point was that all the parties I listed only want to change things for their advantage, so that they can join the establishment even more closely! Not because they want to shake up the establishment. I don't think any UKIP policy is about bringing down the government, or being anti-establishment - it is all about furthering the middle to extreme right wing viewpoints, including those of quite a few Tory back benchers. You talk about broken promises yet Farage is continually dodging questions, and has just broken a promise to step down! I'd trust him like I trust a pathologically lying commodities broker...
