So, in essence, you are voting for Plaid Cymru hoping for a similar situation as Scotland's to develop. If we have SNP and Plaid Cymru going to Westminster to represent us without a mandate for a vote on independence...they are merely going there to blackmail Westminster on our behalf. To demand a better deal for Wales/Scotland at the expense of the rest of the UK. This will only result in an increase in English nationalism (UKIP are perfectly positioned to take on the role of the party for English nationalism if we exit the EU) and foster the break up of the UK. The Tories and UKIP would dig their heels in and not give an inch to Plaid/SNP. Which is SNP/Plaid's goal of course, but it is not what you and others are voting for. If people don't want to be independent they should vote for a party that believes in the Union.
I do believe in independence but we are not yet ready. Plaid Cymru are the only party that want the best for Wales, otherwise we would not have been short changed to the tune of 1.5 billion every year. The others don't give a toss about little old Wales and it's high time the Welsh public bloody woke up to the fact that we are taking for mugs by the Tories/Labour.
What a steaming pile of horse ****e. Please explain how this unprecedented economic boom would take place? When you vote for Plaid/SNP's brand of independence you are voting for leaving one union with the UK and joining another one....the EU. You are voting for the Euro. You are voting for the centre of power being even further away. You are voting for our voice being even smaller. Do you want to see what a small nation with a left wing government looks like, an EU member using the Euro? Greece.
We are not short changed. We receive more funding per head of population than the English. If you live in a depressed ex mining town just outside Nottingham what do you suppose you would think about that? What do you think they would say to the idea that yet more of the UK's tax goes to us and not to them? We get less than Scotland and Northern Ireland. Why? Because of the politics and the history. Handing over more cash to these countries has been a way of keeping the Union together. A price worth paying. This can only go on for so long before the English working classes say "enough!". Do you think those English Conservative voters want this government to give the Scottish what they want? If we go down the same route the UK will break up. The first time I ever voted in a UK election I voted Plaid (as I didn't like what Blair was doing to the Labour party....I grew up in a council house and went to a comp where everyone I knew were going to vote Labour, just as they always had done, I assumed I was going to do the same but paid enough attention to realise what was going on within the Labour party). I still think the only chance that the people in this country will eventually wise up is if we were independent....but life would get a lot harder for a lot of people in the short-medium term as we do not have the economic base. You need a large thriving middle class. You need an economy that doesn't depend on the state as an employer and hand outs from the EU/Central Government. We don't have that....and we don't have oil/gas etc. It would be a huge gamble and it might not look like the left wing utopia you imagine....the Greeks for example have had far left and far right governments throughout their history. If you don't fancy that gamble don't vote for it is my advice.
So easy to be negative about our own autonomy and compare us with Greece, when you could be far more positive and say we could be like Denmark given the chance to succeed, anyway you've shovelled enough horse droppings on this thread, to fertilise the whole of Wales..............
To end up with a country like Denmark the Welsh would have to vote for Liberal Democrat type policies rather than the load of old bollocks you spout Higher taxes for everybody (not just the rich), a deregulated labour market and an emphasis on education. "As a result of its acclaimed "flexicurity" model, Denmark has the most free labour market in Europe, according to the World Bank. Employers can hire and fire whenever they want (flexibility), and between jobs, unemployment compensation is very high (security). The World Bank ranks Denmark as the easiest place in Europe to do business. Establishing a business can be done in a matter of hours and at very low costs. No restrictions apply regarding overtime work, which allows companies to operate 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Denmark has a competitive company tax rate of 24.5% and a special time-limited tax regime for expatriates. The Danish taxation system is broad based, with a 25% VAT, in addition to excise taxes, income taxes and other fees. The overall level of taxation (sum of all taxes, as a percentage of GDP) is estimated to be 46% in 2011. Denmark has the fourth highest ratio of tertiary degree holders in the world. EF English Proficiency Index ranked Danes as the best non-native English speakers in the world. " "Support for free trade is high – in a 2007 poll 76% responded that globalisation is a good thing. 70% of trade flows are inside the European Union. As of 2011, Denmark has the 10th highest export per capita in the world. Denmark's main exports are: industrial production/manufactured goods 73.3% (of which machinery and instruments were 21.4%, and fuels (oil, natural gas), chemicals, etc. 26%); agricultural products and others for consumption 18.7% (in 2009 meat and meat products were 5.5% of total export; fish and fish products 2.9%). Denmark is a net exporter of food and energy and has for a number of years had a balance of payments surplus while battling an equivalent of approximately 39% of GNP foreign debt or more than DKK 300 billion." Of course, it helps that they have oil and gas deposits in the North Sea (as well as huge potential natural resources in Greenland, arctic drilling rights anybody?); "Denmark has considerably large deposits of oil and natural gas in the North Sea and ranks as number 32 in the world among net exporters of crude oil and was producing 259,980 barrels of crude oil a day in 2009. " ....and they are not a member of the Euro currency area yet, and may never be.
You take all this politics seriously, don't you?..................... I personally think all politicians are muppets.........
Probably not worth adding Lib dems to it as there's so few of them left https://uk.news.yahoo.com/garden-ce...who-voted-conservative-122658714.html#LiTH256 please log in to view this image
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...gration-in-secret-Ukip-strategy-document.html Ed Milliband during the 2015 General Election campaign; "And confronting hard truths extends to the challenge of immigration. I am the son of immigrants, who came here with nothing. They benefitted from the opportunities that Britain had to offer and built a life for our family. And their story is not unique. For generations, hard-working immigrants, eager to make their way, have helped build our country. But this party will never again dismiss people’s concerns about immigration. Britain should not—cannot— close ourselves off from those who can contribute to our economy and our country. But people want to know that there are fair rules. Fair rules so that benefits should be earned, so people must contribute before they claim. And fair rules to prevent businesses from recruiting at slave wages, exploiting migrant labour to undercut pay and conditions." Ed Miliband: Labour got it wrong on immigration – it is not prejudiced to be concerned NHS staff would be required to speak English and migrant workers protected from exploitation please log in to view this image Ed Miliband has admitted that the last Labour government made mistakes over immigration policy as he said he wanted everyone in the country to speak English. The Labour Leader appeared to be tackling Nigel Farage’s UK Independence Party head-on, as he announced plans to force all staff working within the National Health Service to pass minimum English standards. In a speech in The Wirral, Mr Miliband attempted to convince voters that the party had learned lessons from its past mistakes over immigration, by setting out a new five-point policy to tackle the issue. please log in to view this image Mr Miliband speaks in The Wirral As well as the new requirement on NHS workers to speak adequate English, the plan includes a new system to count people in and out of the country, 1,000 new border staff and tougher rules on claiming benefits. Mr Miliband also vowed to stamp out the abuse of migrants by uncrupulous employers and landlords. Admitting that Tony Blair’s government had made serious errors in 2004, when people from across Eastern Europe were given free entry to the UK, he said “working people" had been left facing "dramatic changes in their communities that were not planned or properly prepared for." please log in to view this image Former Labour prime minister Tony Blair "Let me be clear. It is not prejudiced to be concerned about immigration," he added. Describing his own experiences as the son of Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany, Mr Miliband said: “I wouldn’t be standing here today, asking you to elect me your Prime Minister, if it wasn’t for the generosity of this great country. A country that succeeds because of its tolerance, its decency and its diversity. “A country where people of different faiths and backgrounds rub shoulders together and build a common life. please log in to view this image Ed Miliband with his father, Ralph, who fled Nazi Germany in 1940 “Where we are always stronger when we draw on the widest range of talents, perspectives and cultures. And I know immigration can benefit our country. “But I also know for that to happen, there have to be proper controls on immigration.” Mr Miliband said he believed in the importance of a “shared society,” which could only be achieved if the population spoke the same language. He went on: "It is why I believe in a simple principle: Everyone in Britain should know how to speak English. "Sometimes, we've been too timid about this. But it is something we should expect from everyone who comes here. "And it is especially important that people who work in public services in public facing roles should be required to speak English. And nowhere is that more true than in our NHS." Mr Miliband attacked David Cameron for failing to deliver on his pledge to reduce immigration levels to the tens of thousands, and criticised Ukip for seeking to quit the European Union. please log in to view this image David Cameron did not achieve his target of cutting immigration He added: “The Conservatives’ target is in tatters. And just as I reject false promises so I reject false solutions. Nigel Farage wants us to leave the European Union. “I say it would be a disaster for jobs, families and businesses. And I will never seek to exploit people’s legitimate concerns.” Mr Miliband said a Labour government would set up a 100-strong police and Home Office enforcement unit to prosecute those seeking to exploit migrants with poor housing and low pay which, he said, depressed wages for others. There would be a cap on immigrants coming to the UK from outside the EU. Mr Miliband’s plan to force NHS staff to speak English comes months after Mr Farage said the same thing, to anger in some Labour circles. The party is facing a tough battle against Ukip in parts of the north of England. please log in to view this image Ed Miliband on the campaign trail in Pensby, north-west Engand Responding to Mr Miliband’s speech, Mr Farage said: “Ed Miliband recognises they made a mistake but has not proposed a single thing to stop that happening again. We still have an open door.” Speaking about Labour’s plan to prevent the exploitation of migrants, Mr Farage added: "There's no doubt that there are problems out there but it is not the main issue. The main issue is we have allowed too many people to come into Britain, which is pushing down people's wages." For the Conservatives, James Brokenshire, the Conservative Immigration spokesman, said: "The reality is Labour in government let immigration get out of control and nothing Ed Miliband is proposing today would help control immigration.” So Jager.....do you agree with Ed? It doesn't sound like it. In fact it sounds like you are dismissing people who have concerns about immigration as racists
Ed should`nt have whispered all that when he had the chance ! though no one would have believed a word his lot say. They accelerated immigration to such high levels today, which if managed better would have been better for both the immigrants and us. Labour also tried to kill free speech by backing the bullying tactics of the left who countered anything they didnt like with the term racist regardless whether it was true or not ! Which brushed any debate on the subject underground until the likes of UKIP became the voice of millions.
Stumpy you are wrong on this sorry, although I agree with you on PR. See below for the reason why there will be boundary changes... The boundaries are reviewed independently and periodically. The recommendations of the last review were that the system was unfair to the Tories. It recommended that instead of 650 MPs we have 600. The number of MPs in Wales would have dropped from 40 to 30. This system is not rigged. The previous review's conclusions had suited Labour better and it's recommendations were passed in parliament (Labour had a majority). The latest recommendations should have been passed by parliament in 2011 which would have resulted in an easier victory for the Tories in this election. It was blocked because the Tories didn't have a majority and needed the support of the Liberal Democrats. The Liberal Democrats said that they would only support the Tories in this endeavour if the Tories agreed to reform the House of Lords. ****ing bastard whores huh! Trying to change things for the better in this country, helping the Labour party out and ****ing over the Tories, what did they ever do for us etc. (ad nauseum) If anyone doesn't believe me check out the process here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Periodic_Review_of_Westminster_constituencies and here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundary_Commissions_(United_Kingdom) If the Tories change the boundaries they will merely be doing what the Labour party did before them.
- UKIP were honest and stood on an anti-immigration ticket (arguing for an Australian style system and leaving the EU to achieve this) - Conservatives stood on an anti-immigration ticket (as they did last time) but were dishonest about their ability to control the numbers coming from the EU....in effect, as it stands, the only way they could put Europeans off coming is by reforming the rules here on welfare and tax etc. Even then they are hampered to an extent on what is possible due to treaties we have signed up too in the past. - Lib Dems were honest and stood on a pro immigration ticket promoting the benefits they bring to the economy (especially students from outside the EU) and crucially promising an end to indefinite detention for immigration purposes (having already ended Labour's despicable child detention policy on immigration....a price worth paying for coalition government and a spanking at the ballot box indeed). Whilst listening to concerns and agreeing that we needed stronger border checks and more emphasis on speaking English - The Labour Party as usual used double speak, trying to appear tough on immigration whilst at the same time condemning UKIP and the Tories for actually proposing to do something tougher on immigration. This is the problem. The Labour party doesn't stand for anything anymore. Inevitably, nobody trusts them
Two wrongs don't make a right though Terror. If the Tories change the boundaries they will merely be re-jigging the changes made by Labour for their own ends. They vehemently opposed Labour in the past with the mantra 'stitch up' which they chanted at every given opportunity on TV and press at the time. Now the Torys propose to continue the 'stitch up' moving our country further right and further distancing us from the democracy we are fooled into believing we live in. Totally agree with your view on the political disgrace aka the Lib Dems Terror . Yellow is their colour and suits them well. My wish is that we never see this bunch of deceitful chancers ever again as a political entity. 8 seats is 8 more than they deserve. It will be interesting to see the change in the dynamic of the House now SNP are the 'Third' party. Personally, I hope they hit the House like a tribe of berzerkers, attacking our unjust political system we endure and calling for PRx2 (Political Reform and Proportional Representation). I hope they beat the House into consideration and acceptance of PRx2 and I hope they attack and challenge the racially motivated threat of yet another pointless European referendum. A vote to leave Europe essentially hands our nation over to the right wing nationalists who haunt politics. It will give them unhindered, unobstructed, unopposed, free reign over us, will reduce our rights and diminish any political influence we think we may have to zero. It will move governance of our country even further right and even further away from a fair and just democratic Britain and into the grasp of cold National Suicide. We wont survive as a leading Nation in world Politics if we leave Europe and give our country to a political elite we invited to represent us (Labour, Tory, no difference, same class, same school). They both treat UK like a time share chalet, we deserve better and we don't deserve them.
Does cameron have the sense to use the likes of Farage and the millions that voted for UKIP as a hammer to force the EU masters to wind their necks in on all the things they have imposed on an unwilling people that many had no say in and dont want ? Like meddling in what we can or cant do to govern ourselves ? If an EU vote in Brussels on a matter which goes against what the majority of people ( when its broken down from the conning b`EU`rocratic language they use for us ordinary folk to understand ) here want we should be able to veto it for us if it badly affects our people more than the others. A bit like the French who seem to just tell them to piss off when its something they dont like !
everybody is wrong apart from the lib dems............that's politics for ew. anyway I`d buy some plants of that fella especially the ones dai Cameron loves smoking......(oh sorry he didn't did he, he pretended 2 smoke it).............and now the fking lying cu.nt. is the main puppet looking out for our interests . politics smolitisk bollox.......
