Off Topic Political Debate

Do you actually believe that if you allow the rich to get richer that this then has a trickle down effect ?

If you can prove that they are paid by someone then produce your evidence - otherwise put a sock in it.

 

One of the pleasures of working in Westminster is to see the different protesters because the overwhelming majority are good natured or, at least, peaceful. I make a note to look them up when I get home so you have an idea of what is going on.

And sometimes they are not protesting. My favourite was a group of Ghanaians a few years back in the middle of Whitehall. They had a band and were dancing and waving half British / half Ghanaian flags. Apparently it was their national day and they wanted to celebrate where they felt welcome. I liked that.

The garden isn't always rosy but it's not always thorny.

 

I have just witnessed a VE celebration programme on the TV that was worth every penny of my licence fee. Deeply moving.......

Something the BBC do so well......

 

Just don't ever ask me about French TV.

Whenever I am around at lunchtime there is a decent program that I watch taking us around the country and ending with the Meteo for nine days. Quite frequently the forecast for the next day is wrong. Still they do have a rather lovely presenter.

 

Please explain... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...her-outside-Downing-Street-and-Whitehall.html Why is it that the left never accept democracy unless they are benefiting from it? If labour had won I would accept it as the will of the people and we get ion with it working as best we can under the democratically elected government but that appears an alien concept to the left.

 

This will be an anarchist group...and it will get worse over the next five years I fear.....

 

Just what has the new government done yet to protest about? Wait and see what happens.

 

Not a lot, just the usual. Within hours they had cut funding for helping disabled into work, cut funding for unemployed, re-appointed the Cover-Up Queen Theresa May - Chilcott report will probably never see the light of day now, CSAinquiry will stall again, to the delight of various *****phile Lords & MPs - appoint Michael Gove as Justice Minister of all things, no doubt to push through the scrapping of the Human Rights Act. A normal day really...

 

By using the remark 'professional' I describe a non working dreg who latches themselves to any anti establishment cause whilst claiming benefits and whinging about the unfairness of it all. As in previous 'demos' they have no respect for democracy, property and decency.

Do not confuse these cretins with normal peaceful demonstators who have to employ spotters to stop legitimate protests from being hijacked. Unfortunately with social media they can appear in large numbers at short notice.

Milliband creeping around that fool Brand probably does not help. It gives credence to the idea that there is an alternative to our democratic system.

 

I'm not sure you will ever be convinced how wonderful it is to have a proper government without the need for political minnows to restrict progress. Perhaps you will appreciate in time.

 

So you do not agree that people that damage war memorials are not 'scum'

Interesting

 

No I don't. Disrespectful and ignorant but not scum.

 

Do you have any evidence of them being either unemployed or from the left ?

 

Ok, so you do't know what "professional" means, that's ok.

First of all, do you know how much you get for being on benefits? Give it a google. You can't live in London (at least in Zones 1-5) and be on benefits long term.

Everyone has the right to protest. Most peaceful protests end up with people being kettled and often gratuitously whacked with police batons/pushed around/dragged around. It's not always the protesters that start the violence.

Nice little dig at Milliband at the end there too

 

I had not seen that BB about the disabled. Is it true? I cannot believe that the first priority of this government would be to hurt disabled people? What did they do?

 

I think I coul

I must admit that I find the choice of target here ironic (ie. a War memorial). My grandfather was gassed at the Somme (and died a few years later as a result). My father was involved in military action for the duration of World War 2, being partially blinded in Italy in 1943 - he is also the second oldest of the Chelsea pensioners. He came originally from a steelworking background in Scunthorpe. So many of those who died were of working class origins that a war memorial could almost be considered as a left wing monument. ie. a monument to the thousands who died because they were caught up in someone else's history. So many wars over the centuries have been started by the rich and paid for by the poor - because it was always they who were sent to the front. The D day landings were made up of mostly working class people. Like my father they were caught up in the propaganda of the time, which stressed that 'we were all in this together' and that they would return to a land fit for heroes. Actually Churchill promised to buy a pint for every returning soldier - guess what, my Dad's still waiting at 97. They actually came back to a class ridden society in which 'business' would be as usual - nothing had changed, and my father stayed in the Army because there was nothing else. Forty years later the sons of those working class heroes who gave their all were being beaten by Thatcher's police, their towns were being turned into deserts, and if they complained they were told that the solution was to get on their bikes and go south. In many cases the older 'demonized' leaders of the Unions had themselves been at D-Day and Dunkirk so many years earlier. Although they would rather have seen a new start for their country in 1945 (something like the zero hour in Germany) they had to make do with a memorial and a class ridden society which was later to tear itself apart. I became a 'leftie' because I wanted to live in a society where history was not always written by someone else. Your automatic assumptions that these demos, and the use of graffiti on the memorial (which was only done by one person) must have been done by lefties, anarchists or/and the unemployed is typical of your use of generalization, and bandying of terms used as insults but without any definition of meaning. By the way a true Anarchist cannot, by definition, be unemployed.

 

I think somebody who is not employed is unemployed - so unless you have "employed anarchists" then your last point has to be incorrect.
My pacifist leanings are well known on here - but I regard anyone who defaces a memorial to dead heroes as scum or worse. Prison is right for them.
The poor have always been used as cannon fodder for the aristocracy - it is shameful.
Cannot see a link between war heroes and union bosses (with communist backing and leaning) intent on the destruction of our country rather than their pretended concern for their workforce.
I am glad we did not have a "zero hour" if the price had been losing to the Nazis. We had every chance of building a better society by ditching Churchill in 1945 and having a Labour government - if nothing else at least we got the NHS
Some assumptions have to be made - an anti austerity march is hardly likely to be held by right wing establishment types - so left wing and anarchist are reasonable as assumptions - perhaps less so unemployed as my guess would be a lot would be employed on low wages and wanted better wokring conditions. Another generalisation perhaps - but none of us can do anything other than guess at these things.

 

They are claiming that the Access to Work fund, designed to help with issues such as workplace modification, is too expensive. Last year 35,540 disabled people were helped into work for a total cost of £108 million, or a tad over £3000 per person. They are arguing that the £3000 is too high and intend capping it at a much lower figure in order to achieve a saving of - well, who knows what.. The policy assessment paper appears to suggest that each of those 35000 or so was placed into full time work as a result of the intervention - now I'm no expert, but surely that would go hand-in-hand with both a reduction in disability allowance and an increase in tax revenue? Both together would surely more than recoup the 'outlay'?

If the answer to both those is 'Yes', then why on earth are doing it?

 

Very quick answer here Leo - I did not mean Zero hour in the same way as Germany, but rather the chance for a new start - which is what most people wanted in 1945, hence the election result then. A true anarchist cannot be unemployed because he tries to sever his connections to the state in as many ways as possible - and holding his hand out for handouts strengthens this connection. An anarchist aims for autonomy in as many ways as possible, and that all legitimate authority can only come from below- ie. from his immediate peers. This should not be confused with lawlessness which is something different. Young throwers of bombs cannot hide under this banner. One of the closest things to anarchy is the position of the Quaker, who is frequently neither employed or unemployed and also pacifistic.

 

Quakers do believe in one higher authority I believe