Off Topic Political Debate

By the will of the people I guess you mean the 36.9% of the 66% who actually voted. So, shall we say less than a quarter of those eligable to vote - discounting Poles, Rumanians and other tax payers that is.

 

... yes and then their change of voting helped the Tories back in.... I must say the turn around on tuition fees changed peoples attitudes...... he came across as a man with integrity... and then he did that..

(Remember our own Mr Integrity!)

 

Just to move away from UK politics for a moment, an interesting poll took place here about the roll of unions and how much they do to assist the workers. 80% of people felt that they did little to protect their rights. Strangely enough though 57% of public employees thought they did have a roll and didn't want them to disappear.

 

As you say... it is just an election... I am, however, very disappointed at how the vote has gone and how many people have voted and the implications for our country

I was up all last night, am very tired and have not responded well to one or two postings....


so time for bed for me.... and Brentford lost

 

Whether you like it or not that is our political system. It has been like that for a long time and will remain for a long time.
If Labour had won a majority you would not have questioned the system.

The only electoral adjustment will be the boundary changes which will benefit the Tories by about 20 seats, so we need minor reform.

The British public rejected AV by 3 to 1 so dead for an extremely long time thankfully.

 

Yes it is a system in which there is only one winner... I however believe a more balanced system is needed

 

Some form of PR works well in many countries. Apparently it is too complicated for the British electorate to understand. In NZ the looney right and looney left got a few MPs when MMP was introduced, but now they have disappeared because the protest vote is no longer required. I would guess that some form of PR would destroy UKIP after a couple of elections. It would also stop the lurch to the right which I think will happen with the new Tory government, and possibly stop the collapse of the Union, which is now a distinct medium term proposition.

The worst case scenario from this election is England being cast adrift from the rest of the UK (which could form some sort of Celtic Conferderation. England would leave the EU and become a very minor country off the European mainland. As far as the Conservative/UKIP parties are concerned this wouldn't matter, as long as they remained in power. For those parties, being personally richer than your neighbour is far more important than both of you being much better off. This is the politics of relative greed.

As an outsider I find this all very interesting.

 

Wholeheartedly agree with you. We can now repair the economy even further after which we can look forward too a further five years with Boris as an entertaining and great PM.

I am also hoping that Dave will put Nicola back in her box the first time she tries to interfere in English matters.

The EU issue needs to be dealt with strongly by Dave ie change or we leave unless the Greeks destroy it first.

 

I agree I am already thinking of moving back home.

 

If this is a typical Conservative view then the Union is doomed. If the Scots have no right to speak on English issues, then the English have no right to speak on Scottish issues. There will be no alternative to English independence from the United Kingdom.

I suspect that this will please all sides.

 

Well some final reflections after more than 24 hours after the election;-

- no surprise for me on the SNP swing. I saw their huge increase in membership after the referendum and it was obvious. Add to that the way labour behaved before and after the referendum, it was a certainty.
- I believe UKIP did not see the expected swing from Tory voters and it's probably because of the EU referendum that was on offer. Of course, as with The Greens, they saw a huge increase of votes, but not enough in the right places perhaps they need to be more tactical and have a longer game plan.
- I think the Lib Dems suffered not only from the tuition fee factor but also for me they seemed to be a bit back stabbing. They happily jumped into bed with the Tories, but when it came to the election, they tried to claim sole credit for all the "good stuff" and blamed the Tories for anything less palatable. Whilst Cleggy does seem a genuine nice caring sort of bloke, it all seemed rather desparate and duplicitous on their part.
- It's the failure of Labour that I struggle to understand. Whilst many on here would say that they lurched to the left, I saw it as just normal Labour left of centre policies that fed their supporters. Did the electorate really see through their spin and sound bites and see that most of their policies were just smoke and mirrors? I am slightly impressed if so - nothing like a bit of Banker, Corporation, Filthy Rich bashing to get the Lefties dribbling...
- still very surprised how well the Tory vote held up. I think history will show Dave to be a very smooth operator.

 

You don't seem to understand the present position.

The Scots currently have a right to vote in the Westminster parliament and their own parliament. English MP's cannot vote in the Scottish Parliament. Traditionally the handful of SNP MP's in Westminster refrained from voting on English only subjects. Sturgeon has said this will no longer be the case and they intend to vote much more on these occasions.

This arrangement is patently unfair which is why the Conservatives are keen to correct this anomaly.

About time.

 

In what way has the economy been 'repaired' over the last 5 years?

Boris Johnson is a vile individual, he should never be in a position of power. The man's a bigger joke than Farage.

 

Low unemployment
Low interest rates
High growth compared to rest of Europe
Most attractive place in Europe for inward investment
Low corporation rates
Reducing the bloated state from Gordon Brown's level
Vast number of new jobs created
Sensible debt reduction plan

If you want to imagine how the UK could look take a peak at Socialist France, very depressing.

 

Ok. I accept that. I didn't realise that that was the situation. Nevertheless, it does sound as if battle lines are being drawn up rather than searching for common ground, or trying to persuade. Perhaps that is not possible but unless someone gives, separation seems the only course that will be pursued. I find it hard to believe that that is in the best long term interest of either party. Separate, England and Scotland will have about as much relevance to world affairs as they did for most of the sixteenth century.

 

removed duplicated

 

As the SNP's very existence is obviously for Scotland to become independent they will use every opportunity to claim the English are not treating them fairly. They had hoped to bully the Labour Party with unreasonable demands but the Tories majority has put paid to that. Salmons hopes the majority will be whittled away but it would be relatively easy for the government to bolster its numbers with an agreement with the DUP. Should be a lot of fireworks though!!.

 

It is not about understanding NZ. Do voters anywhere really understand the voting system - however simple. You leave the "machine" to work out the results
The UK understands tactical voting and coalitions. This is the nub. It seems the British do not like coalitions. I think that is for two reasons - first we like to get what we vote for - not for example see an about turn on tuition fees from horse trading - and we accept that in the context of first past the post "what we vote for" means winner takes all. Secondly the British Establishment fear anything that changes their control over matters. As conservative they prefer Conservative but will put up with the occasional foray into Labour rule as they know it will swing back and they will probably get at least half to two thirds of years their way. Under PR the country is far less predictable and controllable - that is not what they want.

 

Also SF do not go attend Westminster so they are 4 votes never cast. Effective Tory majority is 12 +16 +4

 

You appear to know a great deal about what is going on in the brains of SNP members of parliament, where do you come by this knowledge ? Maybe we should look here at separatism in other countries and how it is managed there. Scotland is a small minority nation based within a larger unit, and so requires special political arrangements. The Catalan Nationalist Parties are represented in the Spanish parliament and also have their own parliament - in fact they are so strong that most governments in Spain need them as coalition partners. As far as I know there has been no uproar or hysteria there over this fact. At the end of the day we are talking about a number of less than 10% of MPs in Westminster who were elected by a democratic election. You can question the legitimacy of regional parties contesting national elections, but having done so via a democratic system they then have to be respected.