Off Topic Dark Matter and other Astronomy information.

So would I, but his course leader has given him a project 2:1 and he is able to start now as he has NO final exams. Just his dissertation to review and his follow up meeting with another academic to quiz him on it.

 

What the ****'s that got to do with Porton Down

 

That one is ****ing weird in fairness

 

Which one?

 

Uni standards are on their arse, as the student numbers have dropped off since the £9k tuition fees were introduced.

 

The Denver airport thing.

I don't know anything about Porton Down

 

An example - if I'm watching a film and recognise an actor but can't remember other films he's been in I will look on wiki. Similarly I will look there for discographies or books by the same author. If I'm on here talking about songs I may copy the wiki link in my post but ..... if I was lecturing on Bob Dylan I wouldn't give the students a wiki link as part of my lecture notes. There's a big difference!

 

It won't be a degree from a Russell Group uni most likely. The newer unis and ex polytechnics lean more towards coursework but the older one's won't.

 

It's swings and roundabouts though isn't it. The internet has devalued essays as a way of testing learning and understanding so coursework can be someone else's work broken down, cobbled together and passed off as your own. Exams can be viewed as merely memory tests which a few months, or even a week later are forgotten facts [not forgetting outright cheating]. My son did an MEng with coursework, exams and Vivas - arguably the best method of testing understanding. Do you not give practical tests as part of the interview process to test their working knowledge and capability [or am I assuming a 'different' type of engineering?]

 

I am looking at graduates from Sheffield Hallam Notts Trent and UMIST. So the old Polys as they all come with placement experience and I am not looking for a pure Engineer in the straight through to MEng mould.

However the courses are so varied now that I can get the old fashioned assignment, exam dissertation students but they tend to not do placements and are 'raw' and need more time to integrate

 

As for practical tests, I do some. But for what we are doing being able to read and produce engineering drawings, understand geometrical tolerances and demonstrate basic engineering principals is enough. They can then build into this specific industry arm, plus it's composites and specialist software that is time consuming to test people on. This is why I go for people who have had an industrial placement

 

You would think as customers paying large amounts that the student would demand better and want better. Not £45 k of debt for no real education

I wouldn't say however standards are dropping, the pool of talent has reduced. I have also discussed looking at putting a trainee scheme together where we take college students and put them PT through Uni. With an agreed return of service/repayment contract if they leave. It seems to be a popular method in other industries so will give it further thought

 

Sorry it was a glib comment, I should have clarified what I meant.

There's an excess of places for too few students, so the level the bar is being set at to gain entry is now low, and post clearing even lower. Whether this will have a discernible effect on the quality of graduates that are turned out remains to be seen, as maybe the commitment levels by the students will be higher given the financial investment they're making in themselves and this might counter the lowered bar.

'Growing your own' is always the best way imo, as you can not only have a massive input into their training, you engender loyalty that you can cement contractually.

 

Deep breath




gasping for air now

 

would that be on a zero hours contract? wrong thread

 

N

Not a problem, if I were paying 9k a year I would not accept MSc / PHD students running labs/tutorials as we had to 'back in the day'

But worrying for a nation founded on engineering.....we produce fewer and fewer each year.

 

an interesting conversation this. I read through the lot.

the question I would have for you lot is.... would you drive your family over a bridge designed by a lad who'd no exams.

I know of a guy... who i went to uni with who was part of a project to build a certain steel based "monument" my advice to anyone i knew was don't go near the ****ing thing.

Obviously he was making the tea as it is still standing though.....

and yes actually wiki can be a good first source but I would look down on anyone citing it so I would hope its part of learning process that a lecturer circles that particular reference and wirtes -10% for being lazy ****e beside it.

 

This is true but in the end..... there's two types... apprentices and graduates.

If I wanted a practical type I'd want an apprentice. I find the german model the way to go. They start kids off very young while still at school down the apprentice route. like 14 and they have all the laws in the world to protect them. I've personally seen the little greasers at machine acceptances I've done over there at machine builders.

9k per year should buy a totally different skill set.

 

Except it doesn't. It lists the claims made by conspiracy theorists and debunks them.

 

As someone said earlier, an exam just shows that out the material presented in course units you picked one to revised and passed it.

However that could be blind luck?

I still prefer assignment, exam and dissertation students.

But putting a you person through college and uni means we shape them to how we would want them and build loyalty. My concern is always graduate retention as after a placement programme most in engineering move on