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Off Topic Vote Labour

Discussion in 'Swansea City' started by Jager, Apr 30, 2015.

  1. Jager

    Jager Well-Known Member

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    Main pledges

    NHS
    Labour will create a £2.5 billion NHS Time to Care fund, paid for from a mansion tax on properties over £2 million, a new levy on tobacco firms and new taxes on hedge funds. It will pay for 20,000 new nurses, 8,000 new GPs, 5,000 homecare workers and 3,000 more midwives. Labour has also promised to cap the profits of private providers in the NHS at 5 per cent.

    EDUCATION
    Labour will provide 25 hours of childcare for working parents of 3 and 4 year olds, paid for by increasing the banking levy by £800 million. The party will also pledge to cap class sizes for 5, 6 and 7 year olds at 30. It will ban the creation of Free Schools in areas where there is a surplus of places. School leavers who achieve the right grades will be guaranteed an apprenticeship. The curriculum will emphasise creativity. Labour will also create a National Primary Childcare Service, giving parents a "legal right" to wrap-around childcare from 8am to 6pm - but it will be provided by volunteers. The party has also pledged to cut tuition fees to £6,000.

    IMMIGRATION
    Labour pledges to "control" immigration by hiring an extra 1,000 border staff, increasing the powers of the Gangmasters Licensing Authority and banning the recruitment of only overseas workers. Migrants will not be able to claim benefits for two years, or send child benefit overseas. People working in public facing roles in the public sector will be required to speak English.

    HOUSING
    Labour believes it can build 200,000 homes a year by 2020 by creating new housing corporations and using funds from the Help to Buy ISA to stimulate supply. It will end the so-called Bedroom Tax, introduce three-year tenancies in the rental market and put a ceiling on rent increases.

    ENERGY AND INDUSTRY
    Labour has pledged to freeze energy prices for two years while it restructures the energy market to end the dominance of the major companies. It will give Ofgem the power to force suppliers to pass on cuts in the wholesale price to consumers. Similarly, Labour also intends to break up the major banks. Labour's industrial policy will allow local authorities to retain business rates, under a £30 billion devolution of tax.

    DEFENCE
    Labour will make discrimination against service personnel illegal, and retain the continuous at sea nuclear deterrence. There is no commitment to meet the Nato two per cent spending target or on troop numbers, deferring decisions until after a Strategy Defence Review.

    By voting for anyone else you will get the Whore (Liberal) Party in again, they are good at sucking up to the Nasty (Tory) Party, they sell out their principles to retain power. The Nasty Party of course is headed by the son of Maggie, they want to make the most vulnerable to pay for all their madcap ideas. They have also allowed their mates in big business not to pay taxes.

    Vote LABOUR, you know you want to :)
     
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  2. DragonPhilljack

    DragonPhilljack Well-Known Member

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    I think pretty much most of Wales does, but I have a soft spot for Plaid..................<cheers>
     
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  3. Jager

    Jager Well-Known Member

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    The problem with Plaid is that they won't get into power as they are only a minority party in Wales, how can they possibly represent others outside of the Welsh borders? They are much better than the whores though, i'll give em that ;)
     
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  4. Stereo

    Stereo Well-Known Member

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    I can't trust Labour. I will vote Conservative because I feel MY life has improved under them, but it's a wasted vote in Wales as generations of Welsh families vote Labour without any thought as it's what their parents did. There's still this inverted snobbery running rife about the Conservatives. Many people still think of Thatcher when they think of the conservatives.
    I have worked on several conferences for a particular Union who are staunch Labour supporters. I've lost count of the times I've heared speeches where Thatcher is mentioned with a sneer, and the audience respond with boos. People are stuck in the past and refuse to move on.
     
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  5. Terror ball

    Terror ball Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely right Stereo.
    I haven't voted for the Conservative party but I would never say never. I have voted for Plaid once, then Lib Dems every election after (UKIP at the last 2/3 European elections...on a single issue)....but I would never say never.

    This country (Wales) is stuck in the past. The political discourse is infantile. If Wales were a state it would be a 1 party state like North Korea. The only thing interesting in Welsh politics is the debate within the Labour party as they are the only people who have a chance of governing.
    In living memory there hasn't been a time when the Labour party has not been in power in Wales.
    Yet they are totally unaccountable.
    Any thing that goes wrong is blamed on Westminster and the Tories...worse, the political discourse regularly includes the words "scum" and the "nasty party" etc.

    Here's a ****ing idea. If they are the problem vote Plaid Cymru, but know that you are voting for independence....it could work I think, might take 10 or 20 years for the electorate to wise up but eventually the responsibility of governing ourselves would force people to get real.

    If you don't think we are ready for independence then why not try holding the Labour party to account in Wales by voting for an alternative party that believes in the UK.
    We had a Lib Dem council in Swansea, we didn't crumble into the sea did we?

    At the very least cut out the childish, nasty, polarising spite and start debating policy like grown ups.
     
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  6. Terror ball

    Terror ball Well-Known Member

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    An example of Labour spin and hypocrisy.

    The NHS is used as a political football. This is mainly down to the Labour party. They just have to mention the NHS and their ratings go up the Tories down. So they habitually attack the Tories on this subject.

    What we hear over and over and over again from the Labour party is that the Tories want to privatise the NHS and the NHS is only safe in Labour's hands.

    Yet none of the political parties have a policy to privatise the NHS and none wish to have an NHS that isn't free at the point of delivery.
    "Aah", they say, "but the Tories want to do it via the backdoor".
    Let me tell you about PFI...better still look for yourself here; https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourki...ance-initiative-scandal-that-refuses-to-break

    "Over £260bn of PFI commitments were accrued by the time Labour left office for buildings valued at around £60bn"

    Remember this the next time you see a Labour politician lying to you on your TV set.
    They also used private healthcare providers to help meet targets.
    40% of all healthcare spending has long been considered private sector anyhow.
    They're called GPs and Nye Bevan set that system up.


    All that matters is how much tax you pay, what the outcomes for patients are and how much debt is accrued for future generations during the process.
     
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  7. Terror ball

    Terror ball Well-Known Member

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    MORE NEW LABOUR NHS SHENANIGANS

    From a Daily Mail article (awful paper but this article has some merit as it explains accurately the huge **** up by New Labour)

    "As Jeremy Hunt writes in today’s Mail, the GP contract negotiated by Labour in 2004 has done ‘terrible damage’ to the NHS.
    By relieving GPs of responsibility for providing round-the-clock care, the treasured link between the patient and their family doctor was broken.
    Nine out of ten GPs, paid more even if they did less work, opted-out of providing care at weekends or in the evening – forcing the unwell to throw themselves at the mercy of A&E instead.
    The result was catastrophic – with 3.9million more people attending casualty departments last year than in 2004, turning them into war zones, in which patients were made to wait for 12 hours or more on trolleys.

    To his great credit, Mr Hunt is trying to fix the mess of the 2004 contract, and today announces that each of Britain’s 4million over-75s – who make up one in every three A&E admissions – will get their own dedicated GP.
    GPs have also agreed to provide the elderly with a round-the clock telephone hotline, offering a same-day consultation (albeit not always with their own doctor).
    This welcome move will provide comfort to over-75s, and should help relieve the pressure on casualty departments by reducing unnecessary trips.
    But it is only a step on a long road. Now, as we have consistently argued, Mr Hunt must go much further by returning responsibility for round-the-clock care of all patients to Britain’s handsomely-paid GPs.
    With GPs now very comfortable with their staggeringly relaxed working arrangements, this will not be easy.
    More militant members of the British Medical Association might even threaten to go on strike (though, we suspect, many family doctors will recoil at the idea of leaving the sick in the lurch).
    But, since the Health Service is a monopoly provider, it’s not as if GPs can take their labour elsewhere.
    For the sake of the NHS and the patients it serves, reform must not stop here."



    FROM THE TELEGRAPH THIS TIME



    The graph that shows Labour is to blame for the pressures on A&E
    Labour claim they have nothing to do with the dramatic increase in visitors to A&E. The hard data tells another story, says health minister Dr Dan Poulter.

    See graph here; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...r-is-to-blame-for-the-pressures-on-AandE.html



    Andy Burnham has been touring the TV studios this morning. His central claim is that the huge rise in A&E attendance has "nothing to do" with Labour's introduction of a new GP contract in 2004. But what does the data show us?
    The public record is remarkably clear. The pressure on A&E started to explode from 2004. Why? The reasons are complex, reflecting demographic changes as well as system changes. But some of the facts are stark. Labour's 2004 contract prompted nine out of ten GPs to ditch out-of-hours care.
    This made it much harder for people to see a GP, except during working hours on a weekday. For most families, this scenario is all-too familiar and the result is increased attendances at A&E.
    Labour's 2004 deal with GPs was complicated, but the devil is in the detail. For example, buried in the small print, it helped GPs to secure a 50 per cent pay rise, thanks to a new bonus system - and, at the same time, took away any obligation to see patients in the evenings or at weekends.
    For only a small financial penalty, GPs were allowed to go home early, with almost no incentive to provide out-of-hours care. As the graph above shows, A&E has been under pressure ever since.

    The debate now is about how we fix that. We need NHS policy based on facts, not populism. Labour are attacking the Government today, but offer no credible answers to how they would deal with the explosion in A&E attendance.
    For example, the underspend they propose to channel to A&E is money that otherwise goes back to hospitals, and other parts of the NHS. Not only would they be unable to make up for this shortfall, it is financially irresponsible to make commitments based on one year's underspend, as you can't be sure of its levels in future years.
    To be fair, not everyone on the Left is brashly opportunistic. There are substantive figures in the Labour Party, who understand the long-term problems and will have a contribution to make to this debate. But Labour's panacea of managerialism and debt is not the answer.
    People will want politicians to solve the underlying causes of this problem; not trade political cheap-shots. And so we will continue to introduce a system that delivers more joined up community-based care for patients with long-term conditions and disabilities, and one which sees greater emphasis on preventative primary care.
     
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  8. Jager

    Jager Well-Known Member

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    Who can trust any politician of any party, they are all there with their agendas? Whoever gets in we are screwed! But my life under the con-dems has deteriorated, I was in a better position 5 years ago as now!

    I won't put a conservatives spin on here as I don't have enough room in a post for the lies by them and their lapdogs. Putting articles from the Tory newspapers here is utterly laughable, oh yeah that is independent reporting without bias!

    I vote for labour because of their policies not because my parents did Stereo, to suggest that I haven't thought about it is insulting,. Do you think I have no intelligence to have a cogent thought on this?

    As for snobbery, we'll have a look where all these leaders were educated, and where they come from, none of them knows what it means to struggle to pay bills or put food on the table, or having to make stark choices on what they spend their money on.
     
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  9. Terror ball

    Terror ball Well-Known Member

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    They are right wing papers as you say, I have voted for left-wing parties (except for European elections), but it just so happens that on this issue they are bang on.

    I remember well the debate in the run up to the last GP contract as I pay attention....I remember in particular a debate on Channel 4 where all these arguments were thrashed out.
    The Labour party gave the GPs a bumper deal with a cherry on top and all those who argued for the new deal stipulating that the GPs should provide surgeries on weekends and early evenings have been proved correct.
    The Labour party just handed the money over, much like they did with the banks.




    ....and Jager, our household budget has gone down as well...I would bet by a greater percentage than yours has. This is the thing. The country was very nearly bankrupted and as nobody has a magic wand they can wave to generate wealth...not Paul Krugman, not anybody....the spending had to come down and the tax had to go up.
    The Labour party argued for the same at the last election (their plan was to halve the deficit...that is what has happened!) and they are arguing for less spending and higher taxes at this election.
    The only time they have pretended that spending cuts aren't necessary is the period inbetween the 2 elections, in order that they could portray themselves as the nice guys versus those nasty, evil, scum, coalition guys.

    It's just spin.
    People need to stop buying it.
     
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  10. ValleyGraduate12

    ValleyGraduate12 Aberdude's Puppet Forum Moderator

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    Terror listen to what Leanne Wood has said. She's admitted that Wales not in anyway shape or form in a position econonically et al so govern itself. Not once has she brought up the issue of independence. We should vote Plaid because their the only party fighting for Wales. The rest don't give a toss about us.
     
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  11. Jager

    Jager Well-Known Member

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    The country was almost bankrupted by the GLOBAL financial crisis, meaning that the UK government could do little to prevent it. The conservative lie is that labour are solely responsible for it when it was GLOBAL.

    The spin from them is exactly that, you keep banging on about labour spin, let's face the Con-Dem coalition are responsible for a fair bit of themselves, simply blaming others for failures of their own is spin!

    I could never vote for parties responsible for my signature, their arsing about has directly cost people their lives, and have condemned people to struggle with life. People like Iain Duncan Smith are pure scum, sorry but the guy is a ****, and I hope to never see him in power any longer.
     
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  12. Jager

    Jager Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that Wales national party are a minority in their own country, there are many reasons for that, but some of it can be the disdain that they have for non Welsh speakers, there are a lot of them about.
     
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  13. ValleyGraduate12

    ValleyGraduate12 Aberdude's Puppet Forum Moderator

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    You forgot to mention that in the years leading up to it Cameron criticised Labour saying the banks were too regulated. He now criticises by saying they weren't regulated enough.
     
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  14. ValleyGraduate12

    ValleyGraduate12 Aberdude's Puppet Forum Moderator

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    I fully agree and credit to Leanne Wood she's starting to change the image I feel. Maybe not enough for the GE but next years Assembly elections could be interesting.
     
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  15. Terror ball

    Terror ball Well-Known Member

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    Instead of reading mine and Jager's back and for everyone should watch today's edition of the Daily Politics, specifically Andrew Neill's interview with Hilary Benn and make their own minds up on who was responsible for our huge deficit.
     
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  16. Jager

    Jager Well-Known Member

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    How about all the governments since the 1970s, for gawds sake go and look at how much national debt has gone up in the last 5 decades. Concentrating on that alone is a fallacy though, as the economy has also risen in that time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_national_debt
     
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  17. Nosugarman1

    Nosugarman1 Well-Known Member

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    Vote Labour who will spend money they haven't got and put us in the **** again. I probably won't vote this time as I am sick to death of being disenfranchised as are millions of people like me who live in a safe seat for whichever party but don't support the party of the sitting MP.
     
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  18. Shaper

    Shaper Active Member

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    Here's a funny story. No vote you cast this week has any impact on the NHS in Wales. None, Nil, Zilch!
    The nhs in Wales is totally devolved from Westminster and as such is completely governed by the morons in the WAG.
    That ****er, Jeremy Hunt has nothing to do with it either. The policies on private companies involvement also do not apply.
    Any Labour pledges on care/funding/initiatives are strictly for nhs England. The other three home nations nhs have differing rules and guidances on funding and services. In some cases, we even have differing legislation.
    If you have an opinion on voting for the party that'll help the bus in Wales, you have to vote in the Welsh elections next year.
     
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  19. Jager

    Jager Well-Known Member

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    The problem with not voting, is that then you can't really complain about who is doing what, everyone of voting age should vote, if you are off politics then look at issues that effect you then find a party that will reflect what you think. In terms of spending money they haven't got, go and have a look at the national debt levels since the tories have got in, think it will surprise you. Debt will rise no matter who is in power
     
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  20. ValleyGraduate12

    ValleyGraduate12 Aberdude's Puppet Forum Moderator

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    Plaid are the only party that are pushing for an extra £1.2 billion. The Welsh Labs, Dems and Tories are not. That is why we in Wales should all vote for Plaid. The more seats they get, the stronger their negotiation position <ok>
     
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