We can do more than one thing at a time and encouraging the club to pay all it's staff the living wage is an FSF initiative we've signed up to.
Fair enough. I was just considering other comments where it was pointed out that the volunterrs had limited resources. I think the FSF is the right place for a central coordinated approach.
An alien observing us secretly from space would rightly think Homo sapiens stark raving mad. Not only do people earning about 260 quid a week spend what little they have to watch a bunch of young men kick a ball about and be paid a hundred times more for doing it, but they argue in public about the morality of the differences in income. Lenin was right. The reason capitalism flourishes is because nearly all poor people are just as bourgeois as the few who have managed to grab disgusting wealth.
Do you actually know how much they get ? I don't The think you do. The catering side actually get paid more than the minimum wage as do those who work in hospitality, The reason why they struggle to keep staff is The frequency of games not the pay. The only time they struggle for staff is for football games. And I think you'll find a lot of foreigners who work the counters are actually students !!
I wouldn't disagree. There's a lot of money in football and it doesn't seem to be distributed evenly at all. I think what it does is open up the questions of, whether the problem exists at all, how much of an issue is it, is just pressing for the pay rise alone the best option, or would addressing the bigger picture be more productive. The people in question are paid what others in similar work get. Other staff at the club seem to be paid less than the market rate, albeit at or above the living wage. Are the trust pushing for their pay too? After all, these people will be living on their wage, as opposed to the mainly part time occasional staff in question. Upping the bottom rate will close the gap, it's not just a simple case of raising people above the legal minimum as that on its own brings additional problems. It's a good sound bite, and it helps keep people pointing at the owners, but I think in itself it's not the best way of helping all staff. It needs to be done with other initiatives or it simply masks other issues. It's also a matter of debate whether the trust should act for it's members, the fans or the staff.
What a lot of bunkum on here. The living wage is an employment issue, not a football issue. If HCST have signed up to a national campaign to redress poor pay in the employment of stadium staff then that is fine by me; every reasonable measure taken to raise bottom end living standards is a move in the right direction. Making huge presumptive leaps to create an argument of criticism is not something that does anything other than needlessly criticise (again) the HCST. Campaigning to give folk a reasonable pay award is not something that, IMO, should be argued against, after all, it is not dictating the mechanism, but simply the principle. I do however fear that having either the desire or integrity to honestly deal with such an issue might be beyond the ken of the Allam family.
Are you implying that stewards at football games (for example) require no skills whatsoever? If so, that's a very patronising view if you don't mind me saying so. Have you the same opinion of people who work in retail or hospitality as well?
Dutch says: "The people in question are paid what others in similar work get. Other staff at the club seem to be paid less than the market rate, albeit at or above the living wage. Are the trust pushing for their pay too? After all, these people will be living on their wage, as opposed to the mainly part time occasional staff in question." The people in question are paid what some in similar work get; the goal is that all are elevated to the same standard of living and that it is seen as acceptable and normal, not exceptional and altruistic. Why seek to condone the lower standard rather than triumph the desired one? Why must higher paid jobs and their pay parity in the employment sector be cobbled to basic pay standards? Do you expect this simple, basic ambition to have to address all employment issues. Why do you keep on demanding so much from the trust, yet constantly criticise that which they do get on with as being too little? There is a nationally recognized campaign for a living wage, is that not a good place for a fledgling, volunteer trust to cut its teeth? Give it a rest, your constant sniping is all too clear and pathetic.
I don't expect the trust to do anything, they've already said it's the FSF that are handling it. It does seem some are selective for which wages need to be increased. I'm not suggesting any low paid shouldn't get a pay rise, I'm arguing for a more complete version that benefits people other than the selected few.
The FSF were the first football organisation to adopt a policy of paying all staff the living wage, they have coordinated the campaign and put pressure on MP's etc, but they still depend on their members, both trusts and individuals, to put pressure on their respective clubs to adopt the policy. All Premier League clubs recently signed up to paying all their full time staff the living wage, but so far only Chelsea have gone further and guaranteed to also pay the living wage to all part-time and subcontracted staff(outside the Premier League, FC United of Manchester and Luton Town have also signed up).
I think you miss the crux of what the campaign is about, or it is as I see it - the aim is to address the imbalance in our society where employees are not paid a sufficient wage to live to an acceptable standard - it seems fairly well accepted that this needs to be above the legal minimum wage. The campaign strives for this as it is considered that not receiving an acceptable living wage is detrimental to the well-being of the employee. If I understand you correctly you want all levels of wage disparity considered, even though the wage disparities do not cause hardship; is that true. For instance, one Communications and Marketing Manager may receive a better salary than another as they might be expected to take more decisions or simply be better qualified or experienced than the other. I think this all leads to something else altogether and is doing no more than detracting from a real concern. However, I am pleased to see that you are happy with what the Trust is doing on behalf of others within the football industry.
