I would agree with you there. What I was referring to was the whole name change fiasco and subsequent events.
Judging by this thread Assem Allam appears to have won. We have fan against fan over whether Ian Ashbee's legend flag supports the suppression of our name. I didn't go to Palace but thought the flags looked impressive. Does that mean I support Assem Allam? To some it might, but the time he sells our club cannot come soon enough for me. I feel unclean supporting a football club of which he is the owner. I may be mistaken but I think its going to take more than a few flags at Palace or Spurs to repair the damage he has done to his reputation in this city and amongst Tigers supporters. Waving a Dean Windass flag doesn't make you a Hull Tigers supporter. There will come a time when he will be just another former owner of Hull City. When that time comes the damage he has caused between the club and the supporters will have to be repaired. I see the work done by mauled and DMD as capital for the future. I think they should be cut some slack. I told Fez being right was good for the soul. I wasn't referring to his soul but those who doubted what he said at the time. I was prepared to give Assem Allam the benefit of the doubt in everything except getting the freehold of the KC and the name. My soul has benefitted from the experience.
It's hard to see how anyone's been hoodwinked, when the club asked the designer for help and permission, and that was mentioned in numerous posts.
Judging by this thread Assem Allam appears to have won. We have fan against fan over whether Ian Ashbee's legend flag supports the suppression of our name. I didn't go to Palace but thought the flags looked impressive. Why has he won? How does 'looking impressive' alter how they support the dropping of our true identity within the ground? Were the flags out at Palace, or are you referring to the handheld ones the club issued? Does that mean I support Assem Allam? To some it might, but the time he sells our club cannot come soon enough for me. I feel unclean supporting a football club of which he is the owner. Why should it mean you support Assem Allam? It seems that you consider seeing the flags waved at Palace as being more important that the constant attack on our club's name, that is all. But that is your choice. I may be mistaken but I think its going to take more than a few flags at Palace or Spurs to repair the damage he has done to his reputation in this city and amongst Tigers supporters. Waving a Dean Windass flag doesn't make you a Hull Tigers supporter. Throwing one to the ground or onto the pitch might send a message and raise questions, though. If you don't want to be his clown, don't put his red nose on. There will come a time when he will be just another former owner of Hull City. When that time comes the damage he has caused between the club and the supporters will have to be repaired. I see the work done by mauled and DMD as capital for the future. I think they should be cut some slack. I have never seen anyone disrespect the flags and what they stand for, have you? As for my part, I have only asked that the project be deferred for a period so it cannot be adopted by the Allam Marketing and Communications Manager in his on-going attack on the name of the club and it's irrelevant supporters - too late now, as it has been adopted, hasn't it? I told Fez being right was good for the soul. I wasn't referring to his soul but those who doubted what he said at the time. I was prepared to give Assem Allam the benefit of the doubt in everything except getting the freehold of the KC and the name. My soul has benefitted from the experience. That is simply not true, you said saying 'I told you so' is good for the soul - that is very different from simply being right; you can be right and not gloat. This is what was said in a bigger conversation, there is no trust broken here, it is simply what was said: You said " It would be a shame if you don't stay around till the end. We need somebody to say I told you so. Its good for the soul." I responded, "Saying I told you so would not be good for my soul." You responded, "Its good for other people's souls though." You have a strange way of recalling your conversations and it misrepresents how things were discussed and what was meant - not good and disappointing.
I agree, no one has been hoodwinked; it has always seemed that everyone participated in this with their eyes wide open.
I don't see the hand held flags as important at all. They looked impressive to me on the television. When Assem Allam has gone we'll get our name back. I think that will be sooner rather than later. If its later then we will have a battle to reclaim our name. That battle will not depend on the handheld flags at Palace. I don't see the flags as being more important then our name. I don't believe waving a flag means you accept getting rid of our name. I won't be his clown or wear his red nose. Like I said accepting the design of the flags doesn't mean you accept the attempt to strip our name. Get rid of Assem Allam and we save our name. Waving a Ian Ashbee flag will make no difference to that outcome. You can only say when "I told you so" if you are right. I cannot see any other interpretation of what I wrote. Maybe I should have said it was good for my soul as that is what I meant, along with other people who think like me and feel conned because they believed everything would turn out ok in the end.
But we've all had this debate many times. By now people are decided who's side they're on, unless they're persuaded otherwise by the actions of the people directly involved. For instance: I was staunchly pro-Allam. Mainly because the name change didn't bother me and also because the family had saved us from liquidation and led us to our highest position ever. However, recent events have led me to question the mans morals and maybe admit that I was wrong to consider him to be our messiah. Do I want him out? No, not entirely. Would I be upset if he sold the club to someone else because the constant crap is getting on my nerves? Definitely not. Problem is. Where do fans like me go from here? A post on here highlighted a need to reunite the fans. There are certain fans I wouldn't piss on if we were on fire. Not all of them CTWD. Certain fans who have started fights with people, jostled kids, made the disabled move to another block or shout in women's faces all because people don't agree with their opinion. This club will never be the same again and although he may have set the ball rolling, it's not entirely all Allams fault...
?? I really don't know what you are really saying. If you feel conned, because you thought it would turn out okay, that kind of says you got it wrong; or am I misreading that too? If you got it wrong, then how does your 'I told you so' apply, what have you got to tell someone if you got it wrong? Maybe you should have said it would be good for your soul, but you didn't, despite a number of opportunities to do so. I can't follow your thought process, as it is confused. I have never said that accepting the flags is accepting the name-change, but surely you can see that a malicious club owner who twists the words of just about everyone, is more than capable of claiming that such an innocently meant thing is supportive of his stadium policy, which is dropping any visible mention of the club's name. The designs are already adopted (bought?) by the club, so their NOT606 uniqueness is lost to them and it now looks like there is going to be some sort of occasion to honour the unfolding of the flags, which is just added PR support for the owners. People are totally capable of making their own decisions and that is exactly what is happening - I will disagree with them if that is okay with you, Dutch and TOM. (I'll ignore Happy as he is no more than the Bluebottle in the room). Of course the whole project is now embroiled in the ASI initiative, or will be until someone from the club makes an official announcement about what is or what is not funded by the initiative. Whichever way it goes the club have manipulated the banner initiative to their own ends and that is disappointing, as is the total lack of any response from the club regarding ASI. Yes, eventually the Allam's will move on, but they will have left a legacy of abject bitterness in their wake and quite a number of disenfranchised supporters who have walked away from a club they once cherished.
The designs are already adopted (bought?) by the club, so their NOT606 uniqueness is lost to them and it now looks like there is going to be some sort of occasion to honour the unfolding of the flags, which is just added PR support for the owners. There's no occasion to unfold the flags, I'm still waiting for people to offer to take them!!!! If no one comes forward they'll just stay in the conservatory until someone does
Given they're designs, I can't see how they're lost to you, as you'll have the call on the image rights Anyone claiming they're linked to the ASI are the ones doing the twisting, the club have said bugger all apart from stating they weren't ASI funded. If some are correct, and the fund is for travel/tickets, that should be self evident anyway.
