1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

'Mon the Monkeys

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Toby, Apr 21, 2015.

  1. Toby

    Toby GC's Life Coach

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    36,127
    Likes Received:
    20,989
    For the first time in US history, a judge has granted two chimpanzees a petition – through human attorneys – to defend their rights against unlawful imprisonment, arguably bestowing the status of “legal persons” on the primates.

    On Monday, Manhattan supreme court justice Barbara Jaffe granted a writ of habeas corpus on behalf of two non-human plaintiffs, Hercules and Leo – chimpanzees used for medical experiments at Stony Brook University on Long Island.

    In her order, Jaffe ordered Samuel Stanley Jr, the president of Stony Brook, to argue before the court why the chimpanzees were being “unlawfully detained” at his university and should not be transferred to a primate sanctuary in Florida.

    The attorneys who brought the petition forward, part of the Nonhuman Rights Project (NhRP), argue that under New York law, “only a ‘legal person’ may have an order to show cause and writ of habeas corpus issued in his or her behalf. The court has therefore implicitly determined that Hercules and Leo are ‘persons’.”

    “This is one step in a long, long struggle,” said Steven Wise, the lawyer leading the effort. “She never says explicitly that our non-human plaintiffs were persons but by issuing the order … she’s either saying implicitly that they are or that they certainly can be. So that’s the first time that has happened.

    “It feels great. We knew it was going to happen sometime,” he added. “Even though we’re scattered all around the country we all gave each other a high five over the phone.”

    Habeas corpus petitions are used, in theory, to fight unlawful imprisonment by forcing a custodian to prove they have legal cause to detain someone.

    Wise’s argument in this case and others is that chimpanzees are intelligent,emotionally complex and self-aware enough to merit some basic human rights, such as the rights against illegal detainment and cruel treatment. They are “autonomous and self-determining”, in Wise’s words.

    He said he suspects that Eric Schneiderman, who will represent Stony Brook as attorney general of New York, will argue that “Hercules and Leo are things and that they’re not persons, and that’s where the battle lines are drawn. Are they persons or are they not persons?”

    Schneiderman may also draw from past rejections of Wise’s petitions. In onefailed bid to remove another chimpanzee, Tommy, from captivity in a trailer in Gloversville, New York, an appeals court argued that chimpanzees do not participate in society and cannot be held accountable for their actions.

    please log in to view this image



    “In our view,” the judges wrote, “it is this incapability to bear any legal responsibilities and societal duties that renders it inappropriate to confer upon chimpanzees the legal rights … that have been afforded to human beings.”

    In another decision, a separate appeals court argued that taking a different chimpanzee, Kiko, to a sanctuary amounted to another form of imprisonment, and that habeas corpus amounted to an inappropriate remedy.

    NhRP hopes to move the chimpanzees to the Save the Chimps sanctuary in Fort Pierce, Florida, where more than 250 chimps live on a series of islands along the Atlantic coast.

    Kathy Hessler, a professor of animal law at Lewis & Clark law school, told the Guardian that Wise’s burden is to prove chimps are “enough like a human that the legal system should take notice”.

    Opponents of Wise’s fight for limited rights for chimpanzees warn that the judge’s granting of the petition does not mean she endorses “personhood” for chimpanzees. Richard Cupp, a law professor at California’s Pepperdine University said “we should avoid reading too much into this document ordering a hearing.”

    “It seems quite unlikely that a judge would intend to make such an exceptionally controversial decision that a chimpanzee is a person without even hearing arguments from the other side,” Cupp said. The suggestion that nonhuman animals are persons is “new terrain for judges”, he added.

    Cupp and others argue that chimpanzees may deserve greater protections, but not rights. “No one should ever regard animals as if they were stones,” Richard Epstein, a New York University law professor told the Guardian last year, but he said that Wise and his cohorts go too far into a labyrinth of questions about what separates humans from nonhuman animals.

    NhRP has appealed against the decisions in Kiko and Tommy’s cases, and its next hearing on behalf of Hercules and Leo is scheduled for 6 May.
     
    #1
  2. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    11,325
    Likes Received:
    926
    They will be getting council houses next.
     
    #2
  3. Toby

    Toby GC's Life Coach

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    36,127
    Likes Received:
    20,989
    I don't think chimpanzees would want to live in a house.
     
    #3
  4. stopmeandslapme

    stopmeandslapme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    20,344
    Likes Received:
    10,301
    They'll be letting blacks sit at the front of the bus next.
     
    #4
  5. Toby

    Toby GC's Life Coach

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    36,127
    Likes Received:
    20,989
    Racist jokes are hilarious <ok>
     
    #5
  6. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    11,325
    Likes Received:
    926
    Well I wouldn't have thought they'd use lawyers either.
     
    #6
    DevAdvocate and Patience like this.

  7. stopmeandslapme

    stopmeandslapme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    20,344
    Likes Received:
    10,301
    Indeed they are but which group was that joke being racist towards?
     
    #7
    DevAdvocate and Null like this.
  8. Toby

    Toby GC's Life Coach

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    36,127
    Likes Received:
    20,989
    They're not doing it out of choice. Some people on this planet aren't ****s, you know, the ones you take the piss out of whilst idolising the actual ****s on this planet.
     
    #8
  9. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    11,325
    Likes Received:
    926
    You were calling for a cull of humans not so long ago, now you want human rights for monkeys ya hippy ****.
     
    #9
    Null likes this.
  10. Deleted 1

    Deleted 1 Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2011
    Messages:
    19,443
    Likes Received:
    3,690
    If monkies get human rights would it then become legal for humans to have sex with them? Things might be looking up...
     
    #10
  11. Toby

    Toby GC's Life Coach

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    36,127
    Likes Received:
    20,989
    Are monkeys causing this planet to be ****ed over? No.

    Are humans? Yes.

    You only don't care because you'll be dead by the time everything kicks off. Your kids or kids' kids will have their lives ruined.

    As long as #1 is doing well though, eh?
     
    #11
  12. Toby

    Toby GC's Life Coach

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    36,127
    Likes Received:
    20,989
    You can legally shag a scottish person so monkeys are probably not out of bounds as it is <ok>
     
    #12
    gas, Patience and Deleted 1 like this.
  13. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    11,325
    Likes Received:
    926
    I think the world is just fine, and everything is getting better.
     
    #13
  14. Toby

    Toby GC's Life Coach

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    36,127
    Likes Received:
    20,989
    I'm talking about climate change, not a fraction of the population exploiting the rest successfully <doh>

    How the **** can everything in your head relate to money?
     
    #14
  15. Mick

    Mick Probably won't answer PMs Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    11,325
    Likes Received:
    926
    I didn't mention money? <confused>
     
    #15
    Null likes this.
  16. Null

    Null Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    34,179
    Likes Received:
    9,757
    Aw **** ... Planet of the apes was premonition

    All you hairy beardy folk are first up to get raped by an ape
     
    #16
    Minxy - Aged 49 likes this.
  17. Gambol

    Gambol George Clooney's wee brother

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    60,568
    Likes Received:
    18,223
    *Planet of the Papes
     
    #17
    Null and Minxy - Aged 49 like this.
  18. Black Caviar

    Black Caviar 1 of the top judges in Europe

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    43,569
    Likes Received:
    58,372
    .
     
    #18
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2021
  19. Patience

    Patience Spastic Arab

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    15,984
    Likes Received:
    18,997
    And ******s.
     
    #19
    Null likes this.
  20. Toby

    Toby GC's Life Coach

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    36,127
    Likes Received:
    20,989
    The world is not 'fine', and everything definitely isn't 'getting better'.

    Every time you say that you justify it with some boring stat relating to money. Growth forecast in the top 20 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
     
    #20

Share This Page