Off Topic Great Britain General Election May 7th 2015.

You're talking out yer arse.

The Greek economy went down the pan post the World wide economic crash, when it's hidden borrowing came to light, it was **** all to do with the EU, it's was down to their own economic idiocy

They'd been living beyond their means for years, racking up massive public borrowing to fund huge public sector pay rises, the Olympics and covering for the 25% of the population who evaded tax ffs.

 

That's coincidental. They would have been fcked either way. They ended up potless for one simple reason...bad debts. Same with Spain. Banks funded dodgy debts in loans to finance holiday homes and properties etc in an over-inflated market. Nowt to do with the Euros.

 

oh sweet jesus I offered a proper explanation and rather than tackle it with factual information you say "You're talking out yer arse."
Which is funny, because it is the words of economists I am uusing, as in you know, people who do that for a living. And you, who is not even remotely qualified to talk about economics let alone get into the technicals, that's funny.

You are doing BBC economics.


For all your pretentiousness Tobes, you're not that smart at all, and using terms like talking out your arse just backs up that assertion>

For a start, you just went read and grabbed that **** from a site, and you know it. Skimming for what you need then you come back pretending it's your own understanding. I find that pretty pathetic, trying to pass it off as your own argument, random bits of websites. Tut tut.


The UK national debt is what? 85%ish of GDP? 1.56 trillion That alone busts your failed argument. Why? Because the cost of borrowing for the UK gov is low, for years almost 0% interest on government borrowing. The UK has it's own currency, and part of global markets trade in Sterling plus the UK controls how much Sterling there is, ergo controlling the value of said currency. As a result, UK bonds are a sound investment, another source of revenue.

Greece, had large investment in government bonds because 1 the cost of greek gov borrowing was low, so they could keep paying bills. The investment in greece, which wa seen as safe prior to the crash, also provided a lot of money.

Essentially greece was a sieve, leaking money, but it was not clearly apparent, because investor confidence was pretty good but the problems wee already there and the only way of really addressing that was making the Greek economy more competitive. The only way to do that is to lower the value of the currency, making wages lower so that say for example, making a chair, a greek chair might cost the same as a german made chair, if Greece devalued it's own currency, then Greece can produce chairs for less than Germany can, giving Greece an edge on Germany, obviously Chair is a simple example.

Greece could not do that with the Euro, so FOR YEARS Greece could not make itsself competitive by devaluing said currency.

Whilst Greece did spend billions on the olympics, they also made a lot of money too but it is not the cost, it is the legacy, they have a stadium not even used, but much went on infrastructure which still benefits economy, it's not as simple as saying "duh the Olympics" as you clearly have.

They were not managing their spending well, there was a lot of waste cos as I said, wages outstripped producitity which was a major factor, and BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT DEVALUE THEIR CURRENCY THEY COULD NOT LOWER WAGES IN ORDER TO COMPETE.

This went on until investor confidence plummeted, and with that the cost of bowworing, the very means they have been using to keep going, as is the UK as we speak, went through the roof, meaning they could not pay their bills, THEN they crashed.

 

Is not even remotely getting into this subject mate, you could not respond to what I said with that.

Just media generalisations tbh, you need to go look at what happened to individual member states.

Ireland's issue was different, Spain's issue was also different but both were made worse by the Euro and loss of control over their own currency and with it loss of control over an important element of making their economy competitive. Then there is just bad management too, Ireland for example, guaranteed all bonds and banks, meaning Ireland promised to cover 65 BILLION for private bondholders who took private risks to keep borrowing costs low and also the banking fraud. Once the cat was out of the bag Ireland couldn't borrow, Ireland was NOT broke, that is bollocks.

If the UK took on the EURO, it would have been an absolute catastrophe given UK national debt as it stands, people think there is austerity in the UK now, had they taken the Euro, it would make current austerity look like the boom years

 

#sisuknows

Never forget lads. Everyone on here is an idiot influenced by media. Everyone bar Sisu.

#sisuknows
#yawn

 

Irony , I made my points in debate and Tobes says I am "talking out my arse" and doesn't take on anything I said and debate it, then you appear and say it's me telling people they know nothing

Then you go on about another subject entirely.

I assume from your post you have no clue what we are talking about.
You must still be hurting from that mullering I guess.

#nicetoknowigottoyou

 

I'm no expert, never pretend to be, but I was living in Ireland when the **** hit the fan, I had a vested interest in knowing wtf went down.

I didn't just go read the first page I can find after I enter the debate with regurgitated information passed off as knowledge, this is a pretty complex subject, we need an economist, any volunteers?

 

No idea what you are talking about but Tobes and Treble are making some good points.

You're just calling everyone an idiot. As per.

 

You dont pretend to be? What do you do then?

 

When did I call someone an idiot?

 

What has what I do got to do with the ability to read information and understand it?
I'm a systems engineer. Which proves I can learn, nothing more.

What you don;t get UIR is that these are not my opinions, they are the opinions of people who do that stuff for a living, I read their reports and blogs.

I also lived in Ireland, one of the worst hit, and THAT is what prompted me to look at it, I am offering my opinions but your insecurity deems I am being superior because what? I can make my case without calling anyone idiot.

 

I never take credit for anything I post on a subject like this where I am not a professional. I can't unlike some, use my own opinions as expertise, doesn;'t stop others doing that and then slating you because you disagree for good reason.

"talking out yer arse". Yes brilliant point of debate.

@UnitedinRed who did I call an idiot just there when discussing this? You've disappeared after I asked that, now go trolling through the posts for it, good lad.

I asume Tobes is off sifting through any web content he can find to try make another argument to then pass off as his own knowledge.
Tools of the trade.

 

Sisu is right about the currency thing. Being in the Euro definitely did not help the Greeks control there currency policy. It's great when you are looking for investment as the Euro provides easy money and borrowing. What it's not good at is if you fall into trouble and you have overspent/overborrowed.

However, to say being in the Euro caused the Greeks to go bust, thats not the main factor although it did contribute to it. The Greeks overspent and didn't reign it in early enough (or increase their GDP) depending on how you want to view it

 

Greek debt in 2008, the arse fell out year 112.9% of GDP

UK in 2015 86% of GDP.

Guess which could and can borrow at near 0% interest and which couldn't get a loan to save its life cos both are in massive debt.

If the UK could not borrow at near 0% interest, you would feel the brunt of that immediately and the economy would shudder.

 

I agree, the Euro did not make Greece go bust, it just prevented their ability to avoid it.

Greece was a zombie country, it could only pay it's loan repayments, not its debt. As soon as the loans dried up the country crashed, but.. why did the loans dry up.. because investor confidence plummeted, and why did that happen, becaue the greeks could not be competitive.

Goes the argument anyways, I guess I have to say it, am not an economist.

Greece's poor management caused the problem, that is the truth, but.. they could also not fix it with a currency controlled by Germany (again, not an economist, this is from economists, I just agree)

 

Sisu again is right. They might not have been able to avoid what they are in now but being in the Euro meant they would not be able to fix it after they got themselves into trouble.

 

Mate you've totally ignored what I've said. Places like Greece and Spain have one thing in common when it comes to their economic disaster. CREDIT CRUNCH. Their economies were being heavily fuelled by a banking industry reliant upon mortgage markets domestic and global. The minute that turned to ****e the loans on their books became a liability. Investor confidence disappeared. Banks could no longer raise funds because the security they held was considered bad debt. The economy crashed. Ofcourse this happened to other countries BUT BUT BUT the economies of these two countries had become heavily reliant on property and banking. Unlike countries like the UK, the minute they entered the credit crunch, their banks sunk and there was NOTHING else of note these countries had to rescue their economy. It was all their own making. They tried to grow too much too quickly and sadly paid the ultimate price.

 

I am not right, those I have read are probably right tho.
this is exactly why the UK would not take the Euro because it is handing control of your economy's ability to adjust its self for competitiveness, to Germany Which was my whole point before this whole greece thing kicked off. Hence my sig
#financialoccupation

 

DirtyFrank was right, it must be my writing style that makes me appear an "all knowing" or "superior" type that irks folks.

That's really not the case. I'm mostly panhandling the opinions of people who do that **** for a living, whatever the subject may be. I just read a lot and retain it and yeah I am pretty verbose

 

Yeah of course lad. I know nothing about it whereas you're a ****ing expert.

Whatever you say, you tedious ****ing bore.