Off Topic Political Debate

Thanks Minxy - yes I have just PMd you

It's when someone complains about a post.

 

I knew Tony Crosland and even read his book The Future of Socialism. That book divided the UK Labour party into those of the hard left and the social democrats, with the latter under the leadership of Tony Blair finally winning the day. All under the banner of Socialism, but the name means different things to different people even within the same party.
I also knew Michael Heseltine who remembered that his family roots were farm labourers in Wales. His brand of conservatism was certainly far to the left of Margaret Thatcher and not so far from Crosland.
Putting names to parties or systems can be very misleading as we have seen from both sides of the argument above.

 

Have

Seen the news today comrade?

Jobless lowest since 2008. Praise from Christine Lagarde, head of the IMF, "it is obvious what's happening in the UK has worked."

Very different from her own country which is trying the anti austerity method, poor things.

 

Was the 'comrade' touch really necessary or just another case of your endless provocation ?

 

Presumably you are referring to figures arrived at using this Tory methodology....



And as for Ms Lagarde, head of IMF she may be - but she does follow the Tory practise of not paying income tax. Which probably goes a long way towards explaining her country's ills.

 

Changing the subject a little, I was speaking to my parents last night and they both said how sick and tired they are of the campaign as it is just so negative and seems to be more about mudslinging than stating cases. Both are very interested in politics (my dad's a paid up Tory and my mum's parents were labour activists in the 50s and 60s) so i found it quite intersting.

Does anyone else feel the same?

 

I'm at a safe distance Dan.

 

Is it the same over there though?

 

Politics is all about winning and not about the costs .And if we are on the side issues please everyone remember we are here because of the yellow in our blood not the blue or red i get very upset went people feel that they dont want to be a part of this group because of things that has nothing to do with Watford

 

I totally agree - but if I find out the bloke who's sitting next to me tomorrow in the GT lower is voting Conservative I'm leaving the stadium immediately

 

There will be a lot of blues there tomorrow o i forgot we are playing city lol

 

You are far enough away from me in the Rookery then!!!

I will be sitting with a lot of Conservatives at the player awards dinner in a couple of weeks including most of the players I presume.

 

I think this election is not very exciting as the two biggest parties are not a million miles away from each other. Both would continue austerity measures - it is the severity of them that will differ. If the LibDems sided with the Tories again (pobably doubtful) then we will see more of the last five years. If Labour get in they will try to make sure they are not seen to leave the country in the position of the famous note left behind last time.
Also I think people now distrust and disbelieve almost everything they say - promises during an election campaign are easy to make but hard to keep

 

Cologne - you seem more worried about "socialism" than most (definition wise). The term has been used and misused now for so long that you would never get a consensus on what it even vaguely means. For me it is not a term to admire or of abuse. I use it to describe people left of centre who think that the state needs to play a role in improving our society not least by some social ownership of industry and a larger state sector in government. You can then argue good or bad things about it. Also I think people are getting a little sensitive over some terms -"Lefty" is not really a term of abuse unless you want it to be - if the Tories were described as "Righties" I suspect they would not care less. Given the broad spectrum of politics it is inevitable that people will give slightly inaccurate general descriptions of other groups. If I say Lefty or Socialist I would expect people to know I was referring to those on the left hand side of the spectrum. It is easy shorthand if not 100% accurate. For people who are there they are probably proud of it.

 

Very sensible post.

 

I think that you are right in saying that 'Socialism' as a term is historically suspect. Just as the word Facist is also used in a very broad way by some people - but actually describes only Mussolini's regime in Italy. The word 'Democracy`is also not often really clearly defined by those using it. I guess it depends on your personal position on the scale - what you see as left is not what I see as left etc. because my starting position is such that both the Greens, and definately Labour are well to the right of myself. You also say that you use the expression 'Left' to mean left of centre - but the 'centre' has moved so far to the right that this has no meaning any more.

 

cologne-- there is no political home for a lot of left leaning people in the uk , with a pr system at least we would get an option to vote FOR something as opposed to now voting against others...

 

Have you heard Phil Mickelson has pulled out of the next tournament - his mum said he doesn't like being called lefty!!!

 

Agree with you. Left, Right, Fascism, Democracy -these terms no longer have any precise meaning but we all have ideas of what they mean and in normal conversation can get along using them - except when they are just used abusively. Same with "centre" - I guess if I had to define it I would try to suggest that if you asked everyone to state how far left or right they thought they were it would be around the middle -not very precise but probably over a long time does not vary much. If you are that far left I wonder who you turn to as "brethren" (I tried to avoid using comrades due to that word's liability). I am guessing you are very much someone who believes that no formal society should exist but that people should live together as a community where they respect and try to help each otyher and care for the Earth rather than feather their own nests. Probably got you totally wrong there too.