Off Topic Great Britain General Election May 7th 2015.

Primates cam be violent, when a lion kills it's prey, it's nature. Not violence as wel know it.

 

Here is a partial list of regime support\change, not a compelte one. The number od deaths caused by this must be in the 10s of millions

Latin America

• Porfirio Díaz (Mexico) (1876–1911)[11][12]
• Institutional Revolutionary Party (Mexico) (1929–2000)[13]
• Juan Vicente Gómez (Venezuela) (1908–35)[14]
• Manuel Estrada Cabrera (Guatemala) (1898–1920)[15]
• Jorge Ubico (Guatemala) (1931–44)[15]
• Fulgencio Batista (Cuba) (1952–59)[16]
• Rafael Trujillo (Dominican Republic) (1930–61)[17]
• Efraín Ríos Montt and the rest of the military junta in Guatemala (1954–86)[18][19]
• Revolutionary Government Junta of El Salvador (1979–82)[20]
• Hugo Banzer (Bolivia) (1971–78)[21]
• National Reorganization Process (Argentina) (1976–83)[22]
• Brazilian military government (1964–85)[10][23]
• Somoza family (Nicaragua) (1936–79)[24]
• François Duvalier (Haiti) (1957–71)[25]
• Jean-Claude Duvalier (Haiti) (1971–86)[25]
• Omar Torrijos (Panama) (1968–81)[26]
• Manuel Noriega (Panama) (1983–89)[26]
• Alfredo Stroessner (Paraguay) (1954–89)[27][28]
• Augusto Pinochet (Chile) (1973–90)[29]

Asia


Middle East special envoy Donald Rumsfeld meeting Saddam Hussein on 19–20 December 1983.

• Syngman Rhee (South Korea) (1948–60)[30]
• Park Chung-hee (South Korea) (1961–79)[31]
• Chun Doo-Hwan (South Korea) (1979–88)[32]
• Ngo Dinh Diem (South Vietnam) (1955–63)[33]
• Lon Nol (Cambodia) (1970–75)[34]
• Yahya Khan (Pakistan) (1969-71)[35][36]
• Mohammad Reza Pahlavi (Iran) (1941–79)[37][38]
• Ferdinand Marcos (Philippines) (1965–86)[39][40]
• Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq (Pakistan) (1978–88)[41]
• Saddam Hussein (Iraq) (1982–90)[42]
• Suharto (Indonesia) (1967–98)[43]
• Truong Tan Sang (Vietnam) (2011–present)[44]
• Islam Karimov (Uzbekistan) (1990–present)[44]
• Pervez Musharraf (Pakistan) (1999–2008)[45]
• Ali Abdullah Saleh (Yemen) (1990–2012)[46]
• Emomalii Rahmon (Tajikistan) (1994–present)[44]
• Gurbanguly Berdimuhamedow (Turkmenistan) (2006–present)[44]
• House of Saud (Saudi Arabia) (1945–present)[47][48][49]
• Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa (Bahrain) (1999–present)[50]
• Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani (Qatar) (1995-2013)[51]
• Qaboos bin Said al Said (Oman) (1970–present)[49]
• Hashemite Dynasty (Jordan) (1951-present)[52] [53] [54]
• United Arab Emirates (1994-present)[55]

Africa

• King Hassan II, predecessors and successors (Morocco) (1777–present)[56]
• Gaafar Nimeiry (Sudan) (1969–85)[57]
• Samuel Doe (Liberia) (1980–90)[58]
• Apartheid South Africa (1948–94)[59]
• Meles Zenawi (Ethiopia) (1991–2012)[44]
• Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo (Equatorial Guinea) (1979–present)[44]
• Mobutu Sese Seko (Democratic Republic of the Congo) (1965–97)[60][61]
• Hissène Habré (Chad) (1982–90)[62]
• Hosni Mubarak (Egypt) (1981–2011)[63]
• Idriss Déby (Chad) (1990–present)[64]
• Yoweri Museveni (Uganda) (1986–present)[65]
• Zine El Abidine Ben Ali (Tunisia) (1987–2011) [66]
• Paul Kagame (Rwanda) (2000–present)[67]

Europe

• Francisco Franco (Francoist Spain) (1936–75).[68]
• Greek military junta (1967–74)[69]
• António de Oliveira Salazar (Portugal) (1932-74)[70]
• Turkish military junta (Turkey) (1980-91)[71]

 

What, like the Saudi's you mean?

As for the middle east 'allying up' that was their choice, they had their own historical and religious reasons why that was never going to happen.

 

True it did not look likely. I never said they would I said if, implying the western importance of making sure it never happens

The saudi Monarchy are evil, not saudis and who makes sure the saudi Monarchy stay in power by selling them plenty of weapons? Same for Bahrain and other despot rulers

 

No one gonna touch this no?

This is not even nearly a complete list, Ukraine is not on there amongst a few others.

 

The whole point is that it wouldnt matter if we or the US were there. Regardless, the region is unstable and susceptible to violence. If an outside force wasnt to blame, theybare perfectly capable of destroying themselves as has been shown time and time again.

You simplt cannot blame the west for the middle east.

So the entire supply of oil is based in the middle east? Ok then.

So lets say they all do club together. What a decade that would be.... Until it ran out.

 

Britain have aided the Saudi monter Monarc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_Kingdom

Now, you show me which Arab nation has been involved in more wars.

"unstable and suceptible to violence"
GO look up NATO attacks... US wars

The US has had less than 30 years of peace since the 1800s, just blows your argument out of the water

please log in to view this image

 

Probably non but who here is trying to down play Britain's history? I do t believe I have picked a select period of time in order to support my argument.

Britain has a horribke history of war. Like almost any country on earth. Its no secret. Nobody is denying it.

Doesnt change the fact that the middle east is a volite place that is always in conflict.

 

Sue Parkin for Prime Minister...?

 

If you actually read the list of wars the US and UK have had, you'll see that it is a constant stream of war with very little peace.

As I said, the US, something like 28 years of peace since the 1800s now, given no one has ever invaded America.. one might wonder

The last 200 years is a timeframe? Not relevant? Such a poor argument, hardly worth a reply tbh

 

Who?

 

who the **** is that?

 

Arguing with UIR over political and military history of the middle east is like trying to discuss the finer points of particle physics with a carrott.

I give up, if just for the sake of everyone else on the board.

Yes UIR you see that as a win for you, pat yourself on the back, well done

 

In your opinion. What happens of all foreign forces leave the middle east?

 

My bad, its Sue Perkins, not Parkins

http://news.sky.com/story/1464711/sue-perkins-receives-top-gear-death-threats

Properly ****ed that up

 

As opposed to debating UK politics with an Irishman living in Finland who happens to be a conspiracy theorist living outside the realms of reality?

 

As per any occupation, when it pulls out, there is a lot of recrimination, as many see the side allied to the occupying forces as collaborators.
The result is conflict, which needs to be settled amongst themselves as occupation can't go on forever.

A power vacuum is often left, like in Iraq, and that invasion and occupation AND support of ISIL in Syria and the arming of the mujahadeen to get Russia to invade Afghanistan (which was the primary cause of the soviet union collapsing) has led directly to ISIS

 

To back this up UIR, after Britain pulled out of Ireland what happened? Civlil war happened, we seen no more invasions and what, Ireland and England get along fine now, because England has not invaded or interfered with Ireland since.

Now had that not been the case, and England had intermittently bombed Ireland and got involved in selecting ruling regimes, Ireland would still be marred in violence and that would absolutely had brought that violence to English soil, just as smashing the middle east and selecting regimes to rule is keeping them fighting and bringing possible violence to Engish soil.

 

Who?

 

Think long term. Decades after all leave the area. What happens.

I would be pretty confident in predicting widescale conflict, death, starvation and suffering. Oil would corrupt the people of the region just as it corrupts the world. You only have to look beyond the image of wealth and power pushed by the emirates.