Off Topic Political Debate

I was on :
www.greenparty.org.uk/assets/files/.../Manifesto
www.greenparty.org.uk/.../EasyRead_Green_Party_Manifesto
Those were what came up when I googled Green Party Manifesto. Thanks for your links Toby. Mind you I think that with 26 days to an election a party should not be saying "they are releasing their 2015 manifesto in the next few weeks".

 

Blimey Cologne - I did not take you for such an aggressive poster - quote: " I was giving you the credit of presuming that you already had something in mind when referring to extremist policies, without having to look for them" - how rude and arrogant of you - first you kindly give me irrelevant facts now you give me credit for ......etc etc . This is why people do not argue politics. Of course I had something in mind - but your strict way of arguing demands people get their words precisely correct or you use it against them - so I wanted to quote the Green Party's own words - so you could not twist my words. I will not bother now though so well done, you have won by default. Support a party if you like that has not published its Manifesto with 26 days remaining. For me that is incompetence and is extreme so use it if you insist as my basis for not supporting the Green Party. If you think that dismissing me so easily will make others warm to the kindly nature of Green supporters good luck - believing that Greens were nicer people had been one of my factors in their favour but it seems their members behave the same way as the other parties.

My last post on this thread.

 

All I was trying to get at was what you 'had in mind`when talking about their policies - you would not have needed to quote them in word because I have no need to use your words against you. I simply needed a base from which to counter. By the way - I generally support the European Green movement and am a member of the German Green Party but this does not necessarily imply that I support the English Green Party 100%.

 

I think I will vote Green this year. I live in a constituency with a Labour majority of 8k. Although a Labour voter by habit I have had dealings with my MP through work and really would rather not give him my vote. He will be re-elected regardless so I can afford to be vindictive!

It's hard for the Greens - there does seem to be more sympathy for some of their views and policies but without PR it is difficult to see them having any impact.

 

In NZ the Greens have a rock solid 10% of the vote which means they always get about 11 or 12 MPs. They usually do not go into coalition with other parties. They do provide a commentary on what the other parties are doing, which keeps the other parties more honest. The trouble is that, whilst many people find that they support their policies (usually much to their surprise) the tree hugging image is too much for them to get over. Not so long ago the Greens had a dreadlocked, skateboarding MP, whose suit for Parliament was made of hemp. This image may please the party activists and the left in general, but it does not get mainstream voters to support you, even if they prefer your policies.

 

The changing of this image has taken a long time NZ. The first Greens in the Bundestag (In the 80s) were similar - all the men were bearded and all the women wore long skirts and did their knitting in parliament. Things have now changed and the German Greens are now in their 50's or 60's, ex hippies but now established members of the community who can only reminise about when they were carried away by the police at Brockdorf or Gorleben (but those days have long gone). Unfortunately the German Green Party is so dominated by these old 68 generation people that it is very difficult for youngsters coming in - I would be very happy to see a few dreadlocked idealists ! The German Greens are also pushed towards the middle ground by the existence of 'Die Linke' further left (who have great ideas but a problem of personnel). So the Greens here rabbit on about alternative energy, electric cars and windmills as if these things alone would solve all of our problems - the reason being that alternative energy creates jobs whereas a full scale critique of consumerism, agriculture and land reform doesn't win elections. I could see the English Green party eventually having the same successes as in New Zealand and Australia, where you have the advantage of a PR system - but at the moment they are seen only as an 'ecology' party and nothing else.

 

With the UK Greens it is the women with beards and the men wearing long skirts!

 

And, of course, in our consumer fuelled, image conscious society, what is being said is not important, only what the sayer looks like.

I despise marketing and marketers with all my heart. They are the most evil beings in the world and will destroy everything and kill more people than organisations such as Islamic State, the Nazis or the various Eastern Block Communist Parties. They will kill more because they have persuaded the victims to kill others and be killed.

Rant over.

 

https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/


This is one of the better ones...... Glad to see when I did this that I came out close to my ideological views!

 

Cheers Yorkie.....I will do it later when I have more time.

 

It actually goes straight to policies.... spot the hidden mission of each party!

 

Why does it keep asking me to put in a valid UK postal code at the end ? Have tried putting in the postal code from the Vic. but it keeps saying it is invalid.

 

Is the leader of the Green party not Australian? How does this work? You have the possibility of foreign people in your parliament who may not have the complete interest of you country at heart. I know Poland has an American and Australia has a Welsh person running the government, but to me that is wrong.

 

She is a British citizen and has been since 1999. Even if she weren't, would qualify as she is 18 years old and is an eligible Commonwealth citizen.

Australia's PM isn't Welsh by the way, he was born in London but has an Australian mother/naturalised Australian father. His family returned to Australia in 1960 when he was two. Most Aussies I know wish that they had stayed in London...

 

There is nothing less the UK needs than the UK Green Party.

I suppose they are a bit like the Liberals, ok as a protest vote but a disaster in government when difficult decisions are required.

I've never read such airy fairy nonsense as in its 2015 election manifesto.

 

How do you know they would be a disaster if they've never been in government ? Also could you be a bit more precise about which parts you find airy fairy so that people can come back at you ?

 

I'm only voting for them as someone told me they're looking at banning horse racing - that would be like a decent tax cut for me!

 

Ending privatisation in the NHS
Increasing public spending to 50% of national income
controlling wages within state and private organisations
enlarging the public sector
ending workfare and sanctions if jobs are considered unsuitable
open door policy on immigration
decommission trident
no answer to austerity
a ban on foie gras
strengthen the ban on hunting with dogs
ban on fracking
removing charitable status from private schools
ending council house sales
raising top rate of tax to 60%
increase inheritance tax
add wealth tax

The Greens vast spending plans are unfunded except to soak the rich. Harold Wilson tried it in the sixties, it failed miserably.

 

Ending privatisation in the NHS agree
Increasing public spending to 50% of national income unsure
controlling wages within state and private organisations regulation agreed
enlarging the public sector agreed
ending workfare and sanctions if jobs are considered unsuitable agreed
open door policy on immigration unsure
decommission trident agreed
no answer to austerity agreed
a ban on foie gras agreed
strengthen the ban on hunting with dogs agreed
ban on fracking agreed
removing charitable status from private schools agreeed
ending council house sales agreed
raising top rate of tax to 60% agreed
increase inheritance tax unsure
add wealth tax agreed

 

Ending privatisation in the NHS . A mixed system works well here.
Increasing public spending to 50% of national income. Why think governments know better how to spend your money?
controlling wages within state and private organisations regulation. State yes, but it doesn't work in private companies. Callaghan tried it.
enlarging the public sector. Makes too many people dependent on the state and doesn't earn the country money.
ending workfare and sanctions if jobs are considered unsuitable. Possibly
open door policy on immigration Possibly
decommission trident . More jobs lost.
no answer to austerity . Is this a question or what?
a ban on foie gras. Didn't know that Surrey or Yorkshire produced any.
strengthen the ban on hunting with dogs. Forget it, it cannot be policed.
ban on fracking Depends on how the country sees it energy needs, but should be approached with caution.
removing charitable status from private schools . Would make little difference. People would still pay to educate their children if they wished to.
ending council house sales.. If you own your own home would you wish to deny others the chance? Money from the sales should go into building more.
raising top rate of tax to 60% . They left the country when Hollande tried it as a temporary measure.
increase inheritance tax . Why?
add wealth tax . Same as raising tax to 60%

I could vote if I registered, but will not as I do not believe that having left the country I should have a say. My alternatives above do not explain fully what I might think, it would take up too much time and I have a football match I wish to listen to tonight. Some of the views that the Greens are putting forward are similar to what we hear over here. They have now stopped supporting Hollande because he is trying to get to grips with the finances by cutting out some of the waste, yet they want him to go further the other way.