John Barnes says being black has damaged his career as a manager

If only Barnes was making the claim your point would be valid but there is more than only Barnes, does this mean that all black managers are crap?
If so how are they supposed to gain more experience and improve if their crapness keeps them out of jobs but white crap managers are on a never ending managerial roundabout getting jobs?

They should maybe aim for roles as assistants under the guidance of established managers first instead of going in feet first and failing?

 

So you didn't answer my question from yesterday{?} - did you see the programme?

 

The **** have I said that?
What the hell are you talking about?
Ok I am bailing out of this, because some of you are clearly on another planet.
And yes JB, I watched the programme.

 

Spot on.

The LMA report found that 63% of first time black managers never managed again.

They didn't post the % for whites but did say 'all first time managers, including black' figure was 49% , so if that includes the 63% black, take that out and the overall figure drops - so it could be [let's be generous] 40% white managers compared to 63% blacks or it could be a lot lower. Does that at least indicate an area to be looked at or as you jested, it must mean black managers are rubbish.

 

That why you said he was just jumping on a subject after Paris, when the programme was made before that happened?

 

It was a question not a quote bod.

I quoted the part of your post I replied to bod, my point is its not just one black manager's bitterness, as there are more black managers than Barnes making the same claim I asked you if there was a trend.
They(black managers) that are not very good won't get any better if they don't get any job opportunities.

And yep, just checked I'm on planet Earth bod.

 

I'm bailing the thread too, every time the wider issue is mentioned it always ends up back to how bad a manager Barnes is.

 

Aye I got that, re read it.
Apologies again.
Its just racism is something I feel strongly about, and I dont like it when eejits piss on the cause by making unfounded statements.
As to the 63% of black managers never working again, like you say it would be interesting to see the same state on white managers.
It cant just be down to race though, Chris Hughton has had plenty of jobs. Ruud Gullitt was sacked by Chelsea and ended up at Newcastle.
So its not like black managers are unemployable. If they find a chairman that believes in them, they will get hired.

Again, Can I say for sure that there are NO racist chairman? No......
But black managers CAN and DO get re-employed.

 

I do too. I studied the subject for 5 years putting in hundreds of hours of research, speaking to people, taking notes and statements, hearing anecdotes etc. etc. I've also worked on an inner city black sports programme and travelled the country seeing racism close up, first hand. Which is why I passionately believe it exists and therefore won't dismiss it. I neither agree nor disagree with Barnes and now Ramsey is saying the same it should be a case of hold on a minute there may be something here. Your view was here we go again, what's wrong with people or words to that effect.

 

This is a bit of a pointless discussion in truth, there are many things we would need to know before we could even start to assess the situation.

1 What jobs did he apply for
2 Who eventually got the jobs
3 What salary did he want
4 What salary did the eventual employee receive
5 Did all applicants have acceptable credentials
6 How many white people got turned down for the same job

I could go on and on and get even sillier, in short we have been discussing one mans opinion but had very little other than that to work with.

 

Some of us have also been discussing the wider issue.

 

First of all Ramsey is in his first managers job, so having never applied for a managers position, he has no frame of reference at all. So his statement was bizarre to say the least.
And I also have studied racism for many years and came to one, all powerful conclusion.
You cannot "cure" a racist.
If a grown man, especially one in his later years, IS racist, you are not going to cure him.
Say it transpires that a chairman did refuse to hire Barnes' due to race (it wont, because Covert racism is extremely hard to find), what can be done about it?
Nothing!
Said Chairman might face some punishment in terms of fines or whatnot, but he is still racist, and punishing him for it, in his eyes, will just vindicate his beliefs.
You cannot TELL someone they are not allowed to be racist, it doesnt work that way.
The way you eradicate racism is to breed it out and educate it out, so you focus on schools and kids (kudos btw if thats what you do), and teach them acceptance.
Eventually it will die out (maybe not completely, but you get the idea).

Wasting time trying to sniff out and punish old rich white men is a waste of everyones time, they just become martyrs in the eyes of bigots and used to further their ignorance.

 

I think most of the posters on the thread agree that.

Racism exists in the game but is hidden
What used to be acceptable is not any more
Its nowhere near as bad as in the past
Its needs eradicating completely but will be impossible to do so



And that John Barnes isn't the best manager of any race to grace the game.

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Barnes needs an excuse cause he is bobbins.
he was **** at Celtic..even at Scottish level of football
then Tranmere? wasn't him and McAteer (I think it was) known as dumb and dumber?

 

So you also believe in witches, alien abduction and that the royal family are all lizards?

 

I agree I don't think chasing individuals is what's needed or being suggested.

Where did you do your studying?

 

What are you smoking triff?

If you're gonna have pop at least try harder.

I see what you're saying mate but as racism and witches exist I'll pass on the other two if that's ok.


But there is something very strange about the royal family though.

 

Not having a pop just making the point that more than one person making a claim is not enough on its own to give it any credence.

 

Ok mate.

But in the same train of thought people were hung, drawn and quartered and others burnt at the stake for claiming the earth was round and that the sun never orbited the earth.

It took a while to be found to be true but it was a little to late for those that first broke the news.

 

And because one person said they were a witch