Off Topic Political Debate

Most of my neighbours believe Scotland and Wales are English counties and would blame the EU if they found their car had a flat tyre.

 

Do you think that farage cares about the freedom of people. The far right is as bad as the far left . i think the middle of the road is the best look at each polices and make a judgement on the facts . A lot of people only think in the short term . This last government walked into the mess of the blairs government and the bankers .
Everyone was saying the only way forward was to spend your way out of the problems . Yes they had to try and save some of our industry by spending and they had to cut back some say they cut back to much . Now the rest of world is saying the uk did the right think . The next government will have the benefits of the position they walk into I worry what mess the snp or ukip will take us down .

 

When Scotland has left the UK and suffers similar consequences as current France then hordes of scots will try to move south to better themselves.

I think we should welcome them subject to a strict medical at the new border.

Only those without a chip on their shoulders should be allowed to enter.

 

Not really. All the world hate the English - we all know that. Would you accept "Most people in the EU think Scotland and Wales are English counties" as a truth if OFH said he had lived in Europe for years and is what his nieighbours think - or would you rather have some kind of polling organisation tell us what a mixed bag of Europeans really believe? One person's contact with neighbours and friends is not the basis for your sweeping statement Cologne and makes me wonder how many other of your arguments are based on such unreal generalisations.

 

When I lived in France an Irish friend was done for drink driving. The judge gave her a ban of several weeks but said if she were English it would have been much longer.

True story.

 

This dates back to the period when Willaim the Conqueror was consolidating his power. His cronies stole the land from southern Saxon earls, destroyed the north of England, did deals with the Scots as they weren't seen as a threat, they let the squabbling Welsh princes get on with it and then destroyed what was left and went to Ireland with an army so large it could not be opposed.

Historically a lot of the Scottish feeling for Europe might be put down to the "my enemy's enemy is my friend" thing, like the IRA allying itself with the Nazis during WWII. I for one don't understand why the English, generally, dislike the idea of Europe so much, either as a political idea or even as a place, and I can understand the general European view they would be better off without the English, which probably dates back to the time of Napoleon.

 

I seem to recall a school of thought that the English like France but not the French and the French like the English but not England. It was along the lines of the French liking a lot of English characteristics but not our food or weather and us being the other way round. I think you could almost say the English like Europe but not the Europeans. Personally I don't subscribe to it and think it's one of lives pleasures to be on the doorstep of such a richly varied continent.

 

I disagree that the English dislike Europe as a place. I have experience of living in France but do not like the ever increasing control from Brussels.
Obviously any criticism fired at the EU makes you a 'little englander' according to the pro Europe lobby that seem to acquiesce to anything they come up with. There is major dissatisfaction with the EU throughout Europe, although the people will never be allowed to voice their opinions.

 

As with many things people always find it easy to complain about things that don't actually suit them. The local farmers are really moaning because the EU has reduced some of the generous handouts they were getting. The French are having a hard time of it, but blame Hollande before they blame the EU. The press and news channels do get fed up with the eurosceptics from the UK, but all will say they wish that ties were closer and the UK would engage in a more helpful way. They believe that should there be a withdrawal, Europe would be poorer for it, culturally as well as financially. UKIP and the National Front here are thought of as dangerous because of the way they wish to divide people from one country against ones from elsewhere.

 

At work we've got a new bloke in and he's been handling EU negotiations for the first time. He said the one thing that surprised him was the level of influence UK has and how many Member States want to be aligned with us. I certainly always found that to be the case when I was doing EU based work. Granted it may be a different story from one policy area to another.

 

Have I missed something? Is it National Stereotype Day? There's no nation on earth that has a single collective view of any other nation.

 

Sorry it was not a sweeping statement but one made on my own experiences of living and working with Germans for 25 years. It is logical that they would tend to like the Scots precisely because the Scots want to be Europeans whereas many of the English don't. Because so many English people use Europe as the scapegoat for everything which goes wrong whereas the Scots tend to be friends to everyone. Also Germans particularly feel much more welcome in Scotland than they do in England - mainly because so many English people are caught in a time warp about World War 2.

 

Good point. We do watch what comes out on the news channels and read our newspapers, from which you start to get an impression of what the majority are saying. A good example was how the press reported that where a NF candidate reached a second round vote last week the left and right combined to keep them out. Seems as if this is a traditional act. Of course it does mean that the NF are kept at arms length, so their view is not reflected in national politics.

 

The only shoulder chips in view will be those on shoulders such as yours - when the realisation hits home about exactly how much Scotland has subsidised England by, and the red & blue tories cut even deeper into your pockets to make up the loss.

 

I had to laugh at this. Ever heard of 1.4 trillion debt. That's the UK and you talk of spending money we don't have as something the left do. Neo Liberal right wing economics have produced the current world mess. It can't actually get much worse. It is ony by printing money that the UK is not in a worse position than Spain and Greece.

 

We have a 1.4 trillion debt because the Liberals prevented the tories from carrying out proper austerity, similar to the Irish. The left, which includes liberals, labour, green, SNP and the Plaid Cymru all want to spend more and delay the repayment of the debt, totally irresponsible.

 

Of course

 

What a terrible mess of stereotyping this thead has become. All this crap about people hating this country and liking this country is total garbage. Most people on Europe are more concerned with what is going on in their own towns/villages to think about if they prefer a Scot to an Englishman. Of course we can all quote examples of people we know, but that is 1 or 2 people in millions - I suspect that vast majority of Germans, French, Italians & Spanish I know would struggle to point out the Scotland, Wales and England on a map.

 

To be honest wy I think it started with me saying that many in the EU would rather have Scotland as a member than England. My reason for saying that was that it is known that the Scots value membership more than the English do. Furthermore the English have not always shown themselves to be constructive partners in this institution and give the impression of wanted to spend the whole time on the sidelines complaining. The Scots are known to be more willing members. This was not meant to imply that somehow Scots are individually more liked. It is also the case that although most Germans actually like the English, they find this friendship more returned by the Scots.

 

No problem Cologne, I have utter respect for people who have traveled and lived in other countries. Personally I have no love of the EU, not because it's the EU, but because I hate the the whole business of politics and the political classes who just want to expand their "business" When it comes to governments, I like them small, local ans responsive to the needs of their people - not huge monoliths that are there just because some professional politician needs them to be there.
That is why I supported Scots independence and although I am poles apart from their policies, I have a lot of time for the SNP.