John Barnes says being black has damaged his career as a manager

I thought we already discussed that the numbers are proportional to the numbers qualified (as well as to the general public). What's different is the numbers who are getting qualified with respect to the sport but as I Gerrez and Tobes have pointed out we should be comparing past generations and now this generation of sportsmen to this generation of Managers. What are you still basing your argument on except Barne's anecdotal evidence that black managers are not getting the same opportunities?

 

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"vested interest" when it comes to racism within the game is nothing new though is it Trebs.

When the honesty of a black player was pushed aside by a well known manager who never heard or witnessed close at hand what was said, was obviously in defence of his own player and was a blind vested club interest because the said player was vital to the team.

 

I dont know about that but if said manager then moaned about being a victim, having his own career being affected by racism, you'd have a point. That's what I have the problem with.

I also find the fact that Barnes as a black person did that completely unacceptable tbh.

 

Former Liverpool and England footballer John Barnes has attacked a "witch hunt" against Luis Suarez after he was banned for racially abusing another player.

The Liverpool striker was banned by the FA for eight games for using "insulting words" in reference to Manchester United defender Patrice Evra's colour.

Barnes defended Suarez, saying: "As much as we will say ignorance is no excuse, ignorance is an excuse."

He said that "cultural differences have to be taken into consideration".

'Zero tolerance'
Barnes, who played for Liverpool from 1987 to 1997, endured racial abuse throughout his playing career.

Speaking on BBC Radio Merseyside, he said: "From a cultural point of view, [Suarez] has been backed by people from Uruguay saying the word he used is not deemed as a racist term."

He continued: "As much as we will say that ignorance is no excuse, ignorance is an excuse."

"Twenty years ago in England, the same people in England now condemning him were ignorant as to what racism is. Why don't they condemn themselves?"

Barnes, who received 79 England caps, continued: "When Manchester United play Liverpool and 10,000 United fans are saying 'you Scouse thieves', I'd like them all to be banned."

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The allegations against Suarez stemmed from a Premier League match in October
"And Liverpool fans too, when they say 'you Manc or whatever'. So where are we going to draw the line? Racism has to be zero tolerance but this is now a witch hunt."

Suarez intends to appeal against the ruling, which stemmed from allegations made following a Premier League match between Liverpool and Manchester United on 15 October.

Barnes said: "By admitting [what he said], he obviously didn't feel that what he said was that significant.

"Because he could easily have gotten away with it by saying 'I never said a word'."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-16309990

there was talk of understanding cultural differences and how those with racist views themselves sit in judgement over others Trebs.

Him bringing to the spotlight the black managers issue has nothing whatsoever with his views on Suarez.
Rio getting a job with kick it out yet himself being found of publicly racially abusing Cole is worse imo simply because he seems to think it ok to publicly racially abuse a fellow black player because he has the same skin colour and then sit in judgement on the issue itself.

 

Can you tell me what my argument is, I'd be interested to hear.

 

John Barnes urged to consider the possibility he’s just not very good at managing

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Football manager John Barnes has been urged not to rule out the possibility that the reason he hasn’t got another manager’s job is because he’s not very good at it.
The former Celtic and Tranmere boss has suggested the reason he can’t get another job is because he is black, rather than this less than stellar managerial career.
Football fan Simon Williams said, “I think if he were a successful ex-player, with all his coaching badges and unable to get a first job in management, then he might have a point – but he managed Celtic and Tranmere, and got fired from both.”

“His managerial CV does have one highlight, in that he was in charge of Celtic when the brilliant headline ‘Super Callie Go Balistic Celtic Are Atrocious’ was created.”
“For that alone he should be celebrated.”
John Barnes management role
Football analyst Clive Matthews said that Barnes raised some interesting arguments, before pursuing them in completely the wrong way.
He told us, “Are there racist boards and chairman in football who are unwilling to give a job to a black man? Almost certainly.”
“But if your club management record includes an almost 50% loss rate – even though you managed Celtic who could win 75% of their games if they were managed by Nick Clegg – then you’re going to struggle.”
“I think John might have more people willing to support him if he had called for more clubs to give jobs to crap managers, regardless of skin colour.”
“In those circumstances he’d certainly be the first on many people’s shortlist.”
http://newsthump.com/2015/03/31/joh...ssibility-hes-just-not-very-good-at-managing/

 

Awesome article!

 

Eeerrrrmmmm....

You shouted from the roof tops that Ferdinand was a massive hypocrite for re-tweeting the 'choc ice' comment about a fellow black man, whilst being part of the 'Kick it out campaign, and yet Barnes backing a player who's been found guilty of racial abuse of a fellow pro whilst then bemoaning how racism in the sport has supposedly ****ed his managerial career is somehow sound?

 

Exactly - he spoke brilliantly on the Suarez debate.

The Scouse thieves reference is true as well - some people are so quick to insult others in other ways than skin colour, but don't see anything wrong with it.

Didn't Tobes refer to Eastern Europeans as snides before? Yet, this is acceptable in his world.

I can 100% guarantee that if Suarez had same the thing, Tobes (and other like minded people) would have started a riot. Because whilst some people want to get on their high horse and think they're custodians of some moral code, truth is is that it's down to football tribalism.

 

No I ****ing didn't

 

Nothing more to add your Honour

 

You must be upset that someone actually sees the grey area, whereas you're simply a black and white fella. Pun intended.

 

Apologies if I'm mistaken - but I think it was in reference to Skrtel stamping on De Gea.

 

In the video posted above about the Mikel incident, Barnes is spot on where he says Racism is a societal issue and not a footballing issue.
Problem is, what he still doesnt get, and Rio too, is that, because its a societal issue, there is **** all the FA can do about it.
They can ban and fine people and press charges against folk chanting racist nonsense at football games, but covert racism? Especially at boardroom level, there is nothing they will be able to do about it. You can't tell a business they have to hire so and so because they are black.
All they can do is wait it out until society evolves through education and acceptance and racism dies.....which it is...slowly but surely.

 

I saw Barnes pointing out that there were cultural differences and that those that that judged him were from a generation when racial abuse was accepted as part of life, he also mentioned the hate filled songs by Liverpool/United supporters aimed at each other.

You saw something other than the contents of the article.

Regarding Ferdinand, his re-tweeting of the "chocice" insult was demeaning and racially motivated , he's now on a committee spouting about punishing those that do the same on the pitch, in the stands or as in his case in words, if you can't see the difference between Barnes/Ferdinand go to Specsavers.

 

Unfortunately you did, someone raised a concern about it

 

Yea, Ferdinand isn't playing the race card when he's doing a **** job and can't get another one.

 

If Barnes was the only person talking about it, the only black person talking about it you might have a point, if he said he was the only black person affected you'd have a point.

But as you're not grasping the wider issue you haven't got a point Bobby.

 

Okay, so apart from Anecdotal evidence where black man has said clubs are not employing them without referring to what jobs they've been applying to and who has been rejecting them, i refer back to this:

6% of the total qualified Pro licence holders were Black and they equated to 3% of the total Black managers in the game. only around 4/5% of UEFA A and B licence holders are Black. I'm not denying some clubs maybe racist but we are literally talking about a discrepancy of about a few managers/senior coaches here. So where is this institutional and outright racism we are seeing when we are seeing a roughly proportional representation.

With respect to all these black people saying they aren't getting a managers job, who are these? Barnes and who else? Ince?

At the end of the day, if they had got the job (which Barnes did) and done well, he wouldn't be sacked. If he had a good track record he would be employed.

 

Bobby, I said earlier in the thread that if they're good enough they should have a fair chance of being given the jobs they apply for no matter what colour their skin is, you are having a pop at Barnes's ability as a manager based on his time at Celtic, sound mate and of course numbers,stats and ratios play their part in the reason why there are so few black managers but so does the racism still lurking within the game.

As I said earlier in the thread, finding it and proving it an impossible task if the racism in question is down to individuals and not groups.