Assuming this is based purely on goals per game ratio then David Nugent and Harry Kane have 100% records. In competitive games, Rooney's goals per game ratio is better than Crouch's and Owen's.
Doesn't matter about Crouch. If he was better he'd be picked. He hasnt been and there's a reason why. As for your point above, dont blame your goalscorer for the failings of the whole team. There's a reason he scores against the likes of Lithuainia...bcos we dominate them as a collective side, dominate possession, dominate chances created. If you're telling me that any other striker would fare better playing in the English side of the last 10 yrs playing against the world's best then that's just plain wrong. Against Italy we'll see our failings and it wont be our strikers. It will be our midfield and wide players unable to hold possession or offer any creativity. Unless you're expecting our strikers, whether it's Rooney or Crouch picking up the ball on the half way line beating half a dozen Italian midfielers and defenders and slot the ball home??? Bcos that's the only way atm. Also as for Owen, there was a reason he was dropped. He could score goals but offered notjing else in terms of link up play and as a result would be even less effective in this England side as he'd probably spend most of his time standing alone up front with his hands in his pockets. I'm very balanced in my opinion of Rooney, I know hus limitations, but the criticism he's receiving on here is just born out of tribalism tbh.
You're not understanding my point. I'm not saying anyone can do better, Rooney is the best we have no question. And he's a good player no question. And totally agree it's not just him, it's the players, formations, tactics, managers etc.... All of this makes the England team of the last 10-15 years pretty average. The original point was about Rooney being classed as an England legend... he won't be because he and the rest of the team haven't been good enough. I've said Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Beckham could have all gone down as one of England's greatest if any of them had done anything in tournament football... harsh reality is, they've all been very good against average teams but poor when it comes to playing the big ones. Does this make them bad players? No... but you can't be an England legend for scoring or performing well against those like those 5 above that I've mentioned. Just like how Suarez won't go down as a Liverpool legend despite being one of the best players I've seen play for us, because 1, he wasn't here long enough and 2, didn't win enough silverware with us unlike Gerrard/Carragher.
Fowler is a Liverpool legend. He never won the league though. It was his job to score the goals that won league titles but he didn't score enough of them. I suppose the rest of the team weren't good enough but as he was part of that team he can't be classified as a Liverpool legend. Or does an FA Cup win (as a susbstitute in a game that the other non-legendary striker scored the goals in) and winning Europe's version of the plate competition (as a goalscoring substitute) add up to legendary status at Liverpool?
Yeh I'd agree with all that. I dont think gazza, pearce, shearer or any are england legends for the same reason rooney isnt, which is they never won anything. You have to win stuff to be considered a legend. But we dont berate the likes of pearce, gazza, shearer like we do rooney who it seems always gets a tougher deal. Rooney has never lived up to expectations, he's not world class and he'll never fulfill the potential his natural talent deserved. Having said that, Lineker may have scored in WCs but it was mostly against teams like Poland and Paraguay and bear in mind that when Lineker was trying to equal Charlton's record he was being hauled off by Taylor as we were failing to get past Sweden. It puts things in perspective.
Scoring for City against you lot and holding up 5 fingers put him into legendary status even before you start looking at the rest of his career
Maybe because of the huge potential he showed when he first broke into the team and how performances since then have never quite matched... maybe due to unfair expectation? I think the players you mentioned, Pearce, Gazza, Shearer were all liked by England fans no matter what team you supported. Said it quite a while ago but in my opinion rivalries didn't really come into it back in the 90's when it came to England. People enjoyed and got behind England a lot more than they do these days. Even when playing for England though, Rooney won't be liked by Liverpool fans and Gerrard was never liked by United fans. Apart from Kane who everyone seems to love now , rivalries do play a huge part in International football when it comes to England players I feel.
Tbh, I think the media have already made a legend out of Wazza. Commentators can't say his name without intoning it like a Hollywood blockbuster film trailer. Yesterday, whoever it was (Tyldesley?), was desperate to give him the second goal because he happened to be in the general vicinity when it went in.
Yes. And some of us older generation still have that. I've said this before but I honestly believed (before the WC) that had Gerrard not been injured in 2002 we would have made the final at the very least. I know even now I wont have that tribalism when it comes to England.
Rooney getting injured in 2004 probably ruined it for us as well... that was his first tournament when he was on fire
Him and Owen were brilliant together right up to before the 2006 WC. I remember a friendly vs argentina before the WC and we hammered them. Then Owen gets injured...
If Rooney gets to the all time goal scorer he will become a legend as he's left a legacy behind him. But in terms of Rooney for England he falls very short of legacy. Could argue the same for Fowler, we see him as a legend because he was a great Liverpool born striker. But as a legacy he didn't leave much behind for us to stand back in awe as we won nothing.
Tbf England and club football are two different things, our strikers down the years have played for England and won **** all apart from Sir Roger Hunt in 66, personally Fowler for me is an LFC legend for goals scored and years at the club no matter how much success he brought or was part of. England internationals might be a big deal to some but LFC are the be all and end all for me, and btw Rubber mate Ian Rush won plenty as a player but despite his goalscoring for Wales he won or achieved nothing at international level, Suarez has attained "legendhood" yet won less at LFC than Fowler. To me Robbie(God)Fowler will always be an LFC legend for the goals/joy/excitement/skill and commitment he brought to our club. Liverpool FA Cup: 2000–01 League Cup: 1994–95, 2000–01 FA Charity Shield: 2000–01 UEFA Cup: 2000–01 UEFA Super Cup: 2000–01 England UEFA European Under-18 Football Championship: 1993
Mr plastic, it might have escaped your attention but from 1969 until 1992 Utd never won the title apart from the 2nd division title after winning promotion, despite that Gordon Hill, Steve Coppell, Norman Whiteside, Jimmy Greenhoff and many others achieved "legend," status at Utd despite not winning the league title. You've just proved you're a glory hunter which is fair enough but don't pontificate about our players when you know jack **** about Utd's pre the fergie years.
It's about expecatations. Ian Rush playing for Wales is a far cry from a striker playing for England. There are plenty of legends in the eyes of the welsh, scots, irish etc but that wouldnt have depended on them winning trophies, that's unrealistic. But if you're an England player ofcourse there's a greater expectation and a different standard you're measured by.
You should probably re-read the discussion as you seem to have completely missed the point. In fakht, your ill thought through post supports what I've been saying in this thread. If it's all a bit too complicated for you I'd be happy to explain. Silly Dipper! By the way, you forgot to give credit to my personal favourite, Remi Moses. Just noticed that it was one of your early hours posts. They're always irrational and filled with anger and hate so no surprise the discussion went way over your (probably pissed) head.
