I can't help but think we have never been the same since Flavio and co took over. While they may have saved the club to some degree, as our financial situation at the time was dire, it was their stewardship that started the downward spiral. A spiral that seems to still be happening. Like a hangover that can't quite be shaken off.
Tf no responsibility? Of course he is not solely culpable BUT Who else gave the go ahead for the club to sign players they could not afford the transfer fees or wages for? Who else is responsible for the trading losses? Who else preached that we should use youth players or sign from lower League clubs, only to then permit his manager's to do the complete opposite? Who else employed managers on name/reputation only, irrespective as to whether they were right for the club or affordable? Who else decided on the direction that the club should take? I still much prefer TF to his predecessors but that gap is narrowing all the time. Under his leadership we have improved our media department but I'm struggling to think of any lasting achievments he has produced. If he was half as good as his soundbites we would be far better off. The bowing down to him by some on twitter is similar to the bum licking that Free Seat Pete did for Tango, Cash & Paladini. Where are the statements from the club regarding the negoiations with The Football League regarding FFP? We were bought with the sole aim of Tune Group using us as an introduction to the London markets & if they were to win the old Oak contract they would make an absolute fortune (possibly at our detriment). The good thing though is that I can't see how TF can afford to leave. He is not in a position where he could write off his "loans" or to have them written off by administrators. He sure as hell can't sell us either unless he is willing to accept a personal loss of every penny he has spent. Is this all in hindsight? Well, some of it is & some of what he has got away with is due only because we were so pleased to be free of Briatori etc. On more than one occasion he has failed to deliver promises that he announced. This may be due to the club not being able to afford them, but if so, he should have known that when he spoke. I still feel aggrieved that we were told we would have a refund on our season tickets, only for vouchers to be used in the club shop (for a limited time) were what we received. Yes, I could afford to forgo this refund but the first question marks over him were raised. He may still turn out to be an excellent owner but he certainly has a lot of questions to answer about his stewardship!
I think you've both inadvertently hit the nail on the head. I thought exactly like the pair of you. All I ever wanted was a Chairman to back a Manager unflinchingly and give him 100% support. However, after the Hughes debacle I learned that it wasn't as simple as that. It was at that point that I started to question Fernandes and my own core beliefs about the game. That's for another day but look at it a different way fellas. If Hughes and Redknapp were both good managers elsewhere, why the sudden falling to sh*t when they came to QPR? How much longer can we deny what's under our nose? What's the constant factor here? There's a very nice guy with the best will in the World but a very poor Football Club Owner/Chairman. He has tried his best but unlike the best Chairmen in the game, he isn't silent and he isn't cautious. The two biggest traits I personally never thought were the most important when being a Club owner. But I was naive. Tony's whole razzmatazz and his Bull in a China shop style is totally at odds to how a small Club like ours should be run. You'd have thought he'd have learned his lesson at this stage but he's just as incompetent as when he first arrived. Its time to face facts guys. The man hasn't a clue
I blame Redknapp for not stepping down & letting maclaren take over last season . It's a number of things, naive from the chairman & the board in letting high spending managers come in & pull the wool over there faces with ridiculous signings, for all redknapps attacking policy where was it because I've never seen it, should have never been given contract for this season & he should have quit on a high at wembley & nothing would have been said about him. With les we have right man for job & if we go down so be it & I wouldn't be to upset about it, need to rebuild all over again & next time we will be ready for prem as at moment we are miles away.
For me it's almost irrelevant who is to blame, probably a number of factors. Poor managerial appointments, poor choice of signings, naivety from the Chairman and so on. That's now two Premier league campaigns we've made a complete pigs ear of and the most important thing is to not repeat the mistakes again. It's fair to assume that we will be relegated, and depending on what happens regarding the FFP regulations as to which league we will be playing in it's imperative that we get it right from here on. Personally I don't care which league we play in, I will always support the hoops but I hate going through this agony every other season.
Trouble is when you have to start second guessing your owners intentions I think its time they are replaced. I agree criticism may make them walk away, but should we bury our heads in the sand and applauded their efforts to date out of fear? This aint DPRK it's QPR. Unfortunately for you there is likely to be some uncomfortable reading for you here for the foreseeable im afraid, yes there are sections of support out there who will keep the faith in Tony and that is your will. This board is for fans, not owners not players not agents, Fans and our views. We're all QPR and openly stating that you despise other poster opinions is frankly beneath you and contrary to the spirit of the board. Yes we are all hurting at the current state of affair which is why some are searching for answers. It's not rocket science. My opinions on Tony have always been cautious, never taken by his seeming need for PR exposure which was after all the main reason he bought us. Not a life long love of the R's, just a chance to get Air Asia logo's in the London and world press. Caterham F1 were the sporting benchmark I measured him by and they just went bust after a very dodgy sale. He installed a crap CEO and failed to replace him quickly enough, I hold to this opinion now as I did the day he joined. Feel free to search my post history. My Opinion of Hughes was he didn't fit the mould, the comment on "interviewing the club" lost me there and then, and it still hurts to this day and Tony allowed it and did not march him out like a naughty school boy to correct himself. Big mistake. The manager was in charge from that moment on and he and his acolytes wrecked the club. Tony and Beardo just stood by. The day we got tonked by Swansea was the first day of the season, I said we were going down and we did. Again feel free to check my posts if you want. This January we recalled Diakite from the deserts of Saudi Arabia, now he's a tricky DM who likes to attack, admittedly he usually attacks other players legs but he loves to push forward. We had 1 squad place left and gave the last squad place to a youth team player, great until joey took a red card and we had to play Sandro who not fit and thinks he made of glass. I'm not sure who has more issues Diakite or Sandro. My point is that a highly paid and rated international was over looked in a position that as it turned out we did need cover in. Which other club is run in this way, or is allowed to be? 4million investment wasting away. What I hope to achieve is to vent my frustrations with other QPR fans and see what comes back, We are not tweeting or emailing Tony or the club by our actions. If the owners do waste there time reading our drivel then that's fine. But if they do, I would like them to know that not everything is bad or has been. The promotion via the playoffs against the backdrop of the previous years relegation was really well handled, the media team were first class and the whole club did pull together I was proud of our club and the way it was handling itself again. Since though my faith has slipped again. I'm not convinced Harry was given a realistic transfer budget as he may or may not have been promised, hence the free signing of Rio on a 1yr, loaning Kranky again and Chilean lads temporary arrival. Net outlay £0. Harry kept banging on about the 12 players he took on preseason, what he failed to remind all was that Dunne, Hill and Zamora were past it so really he had 9. Why did the story of Harry knees appear when he left? because the club failed to back him and he was going to be difficult if they screwed him again. Speculation, but no ones talking are they. Honestly Pete what I would really like is Tony to move to being a regular board member with Amit moving to Chaiman, they are not as close as some would think and it would constitute a change of direction. Again. It won't happen as Tony is backed by the majority sake which leaves 4 other options. 1 - Another of the backers takes the chair or installs a front/proxy 2 - The owners start in-fighting and the club ceases to function correctly (may have started) 3 - They pay off their mistakes and leave 4 - They don't pay and leave Keeping quiet just isn't a realistic scenario in our current state really. being respectful to one another is.
I know it's tempting to want to be able to pin the blame on all our woes on one person but that's far too simplistic. Granted, I think everyone on this board knew that the squad HR had assembled at the start of the season was not going to be good enough. There was a ton of dead wood that should have been shifted after Wembley and the squad was unbalanced, ageing and woefully short on cover in many key areas. All of that has to be laid at Harry's door. But something I still can't put my finger on is why nearly all of our signings turn out to be so poor the minute they put on the Hooped shirt. I'm not talking about the ones we all knew were past it ie the likes of SWP, Rio and Anton Ferdinand etc. But players who had previously looked the business for other clubs. Chris Samba, Jordan Mutch, Caulker, Hoillett, Diakete, Granero, Mbia, Fer (apart from the Sunderland game), Onouha. All of them players who I'd admired at their previous clubs and looked really good signings. But in the Hoops turn out to be utter garbage. How can that be? Sure, not all signings will work out so you expect the odd one to be a surprise flop. But we've had so many, it has to be more than coincidence, doesn't it? But you couldn't blame TF for that. Nor even the managers who signed them. So what or who is responsible for the culture at our club that turns good players so woefully and consistently bad? I only wish I could answer my own question. Anyone care to enlighten me?
So many mistakes and such bad luck too. If I could change just one thing over the last 4 years, it would be this: keep McLaren and sack Harry or promote him to some important sounding job behind the scenes somewhere. Therefore, whoever took that decision needs to do some serious soul searching and learn from the error of their ways.
One of the various crucial bits you missed out what's the likely outcome if TF and his buddies leave? The anti-TF is in danger of picking up support. Human nature means that sub-consciously people read or hear opinions and these later become their own but more often than not if you asked them to break this down and really define and explain coherently why the feel that way and what the alternatives are the struggle. I don't want other fans reading on hear and taking on opinion that are dangerous for the club and for me at least it's clearly wrong in any case. I'd also like people to question their knee jerk blame it TF stance. That's why I take such a strong opinion. You say you were anti-Hughes personally for making an arsehole comment (which actually we all do when going for a job, think; ' do I wantt to work for this lot'- he just said it in his knob head way). But if your anti-Hughes feeling was based simply on this daft comment. I am guessing actually with his record pre- and post us you would agree that objectively it wasn't a bad appointment when it was made? I mean he did keep us up. So actually appointing Hughes can you really strongly criticise TF for making that appointment back in December 2011 or whatever it was? Then in his second season the signings. Criticism is based on hindsight here. This board and the fan base were about as positive as i've ever seen it. When we signed majority of those players they were generally met with delight. And yes we all realised post Swansea. Oh **** maybe we're not that great. But the key is pre-Swansea. Was there much criticism really? Or was it plenty of 'TF' from the R block and around the ground? So I think if you were fair you'd acknowledge Hughes was not a clear bad decision at the time and his transfer policy that summer was met with huge positivity from the fans. Honestly were you really that unhappy with TF pre the Swansea game? He did what you liked, put in a specialist and we'll respected Mike Rigg and entrusted him and Hughes to make the right calls. For me his wrongs are only apparent with hindsight following Hughes monumental underachievement. With regards to Redknapp. You say he wasn't backed... well loftforwords pointed out he signed 21 players permanently so excluding loans and the short term Hughes and Beanayouns!!! And this at a cost of £62 million!!! He sold or released in that time 25 players for £21.5m. Would you agree that Redknapp was backed? Could another way of looking at January be a chairman learning his lessons and saying. I've given you what you've asked for and now get on with it (remember his comments post Burnley loss how hard it is to catch up when he had Mutch and McCarthy on bench who were more than Burnley's summer spending) Another obvious error is your 12 players he took to Ireland actually he took 20!! 18 of which made it in to our squad and Simpson sold and Lumley loaned (replaced by McCarthy). Also it was his short term approach that led to this anyway. Again back in the Prem and this board has a thread 'Phenomenal Signings' praising lessons learned and the players brought in. Again seems TF criticisms are hindsight better aimed at the manager. As for comments on Diakite. It isn't TF's place to pick the squad. Particularly in aftermath of Air Asia crisis. I would also say you are wrong that we are simply an exposure board for Air Asia. Well one of his partners is in Ports and nout to do with Air Asia and I doubt Bhatia and him let Air Asia sponsor us for free!! Could sponsor Man United for more exposure and less money (47 million a season) Managers are most to blame. Did TF really do much wrong if you remove hindsight and think of those decisions at the time? Do we really think he hasn't proved he has learned from his experiences? Seems main criticisms are hindsight one's of Hughes era. What are we gaining going through that? Have a look at the 'Phenomenal signings' thread from August. Last summer TF did nothing wrong. Harry did!!!
For me this was his biggest mistake, we started the transfer window above the relegation zone & looking despite an imbalanced team that with a little strengthening we should avoid relegation. The decision should have been to either back HR to bring in at least a couple of additions or get rid of HR & bring someone else in. Either of which & we would have been in a much better position than we are now. Instead we're facing some dark times ahead & TF's investment is looking pretty dire.
Really does seem like that. Still no real response on my questions raised or points made about Hughes. Thought you might revise your opinions on whether Redknapp was backed on that based on the facts I pointed out of his spending but dodging this I take that maybe it is getting through but you dont want to admit it. Most revealing of all was your falling hook line and sinker for Redknapp's lie about taking 12 players to Ireland! And not even an acknowledgement on your glaring error here. With you believing such rubbish it's perhaps no suprise your opinions on TF verus manager fault it so skewed. But despite ducking all that, the one response you give is quoting, "They don't pay and leave". I asked for you to expand on what is the likely outcomes of this?... as you say, lead a horse to water and all that Oh and feel free to explain why TF should be picking our squad of 25, why Air Asia's sponsorship of a premier league club is reliant on him owning them etc etc
Let me spell it out for you Pete, You are very rude, I gave you a measured response and challenged you to show other posters a little respect for their views, you have failed to address that. When you do I'll happily engage and debate with you. I'll feel free to answer your questions when you calm down and stop acting like an arse. We've all been there, it happens.
You say you were anti-Hughes personally for making an arsehole comment (which actually we all do when going for a job, think; ' do I wantt to work for this lot'- he just said it in his knob head way). But if your anti-Hughes feeling was based simply on this daft comment. I am guessing actually with his record pre- and post us you would agree that objectively it wasn't a bad appointment when it was made? I mean he did keep us up. So actually appointing Hughes can you really strongly criticise TF for making that appointment back in December 2011 or whatever it was? Not jumping in on any side here but Hughes had done nothing of note before he got to us and did nothing with us and has done nothing of note since. The guy lives on his rep as a player. (An over inflated rep in my opinion too.) So I for one would totally disagree with the highlighted part of your statement. He was a car crash waiting to happen. Like Rhino, the moment his name was mentioned in the same sentence as our club, I (and many QPR fan I know away from this site) were saying no way. His relationship with his agent (can't spell the name) was the catalyst for getting in players that should never have come to our club and that created a millstone that was added to by Harry. (Someone I was happy with when appointed and I only changed that just before Christmas last year. The tombola team picking and negative tactics are what changed my mind in the end.) As for Tony, I don't agree with Rhino either but that's everyone right to form there own opinion. I do however agree with his sentiment that the word "despise" used re. other posters opinions, was maybe a bit strong but that's your right to do so. I just hate to see infighting and back biting between the QPR family. As fans we are the one constant in the life of the club and if we start rip each other to shreds then I think the club will suffer too. (which to a point, goes along with your sentiment about other fans reading what is said on here. I just like to believe that the average QPR fan is not a sheep and can make up their own mind. If we were sheep we'd be scum fans and would go glory hunting. There's nothing glorious about being a QPR fan at the moment.)
Hughes is just someone I never liked, I don't think he's very bright. Slightly irrational, yes. Never though his face would fit and QPR and the silly comment was the point of no return for me. The club stayed quiet on that issues and made us look week. Hence my gathering opinion on Tony doesn't have a clue. When did Fergie or Wenger interview their clubs? It was about respect, Hughes didn't have any for us or that's how I read him.
Don't be so precious. Your 'horse to water' line wasn't exactly polite and your post ignored and dodged a lot whichi would say isrude aswell so was rude back. Really though I think you are simply throwing a toys out the pram because much of what you say, believing Redknapp's '12 player' lie as the best example (and then even reducing thatin your head to 9) is way off the mark. And i've explained why I feel it right to speak strongly on this subject. Thorwing a righteous sulk and going off topic is easier than admitting your errors or having to come up with a reasoned response to support opinions that previously hadn't been properly thought through. I'm in the far east at the moment so heading off for dinner now and won't see your response for a while but I expect that it won't come for reasons above or be so far removed from points and questions i've raised anyway. Can't quote Quality passing post coz i'm struggling on a mobile but I would say he did a good job at both Blackburn and Wales and appeared to be a forward thing manager with emphasis on sports science with people like Damian Roden. Time at Man City below par but his time at Stoke since seems that only with Rangers did he have a disaster and nowhe's a better manager for it
Very profound Kia. How does that fit in with your perpetual faffing around the feet of your Tubby Tool who's done precisely nothing for his Club in its time of need, year on year? 15% I guess is the answer
