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Match Day Thread SAINTS vs Crystal Palace - 3/3/15 - 7.45 K.O

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by AL., Mar 1, 2015.

  1. SouthamptonFCroatia

    SouthamptonFCroatia Well-Known Member

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    Long post ahead. :sorry:

    I'm not a very demanding man, all I want from this game is that we finally score a goal. That's the goal I'm setting to the team for this game. :D

    As far as formation and team selection goes, it's up to Ron obviously, although I would have set the team differently in the last couple of matches. I wasn't happy with the selection that started against Liverpool, nor was I happy with the one against WBA. We weren't convincing in both games and we lost them, so I think my worries were justified.

    I would go to basics this match.

    Clyne - Fonte- Yoshida - Bertrand
    Wanyama - Schniederlin
    Long - JWP - Tadić
    Pelle​

    Standard back four. Wanyama and Schniederlin as a defensive midfield pairing. We know how good they can be, and we need to get them going. Victor was great against Liverpool, he made a couple of surging runs and carried the ball in the Liverpool half thus piercing their defensive lines. That's exactly what we need from our midfielder, to be more incentive, to penetrate opponent's defensive lines, to ask questions. When Wanyama (or a random midfielder) goes forwards with the ball and gets past the first marker, another opponent's player needs to step out of the line to stop him and it that way a crack is created in the other team's defensive organisation. Wanyama lays the ball to a more offensive teammate who can than spot that crack (opponent's player out of position) and exploit it.
    But. But our midfielder never does that. We're talking about a couple of times Wanyama did it against Liverpool, and that's the only instance I remember one of our midfielders doing that for quite, quite a while. Both Victor and Morgan play far too conservatively, not taking any risks. It's understandable, they play in a delicate position, if they lose the ball we can get easily done on a counter. But there's two of them, one always protecting the back of the other. One then needs the offer at least some forward impetus. Otherwise, opponents can just stand off them and calmly observe them spreading the ball back or wide, shifting the ball in a way that doesn't create the surplus space for others to exploit.
    So back to the point; one of the midfielders needs to be more offensive, carry the ball past players, break the opponent's defensive line. Other one should watch his back in case he loses the ball. I think Victor and Morgan both have the qualities to partake in these roles interchangeably, we've seen them do that. But they're not doing that now. And I believe that's an instruction coming from Koeman, who wants them both sitting in front of the defence, protecting the back four. That has it's advantages, we rarely concede and are mainly impenetrable, but I think it's coming to bites us now, because prioritizing the defence so much costed us our attacking fluidity and creativity, and that's showing the last couple of matches. I remember we were not so conservative in the beginning of the season, our midfielders had more freedom to express themselves. But we had that horrid run of five games without a win, Koeman tightened the defence considerably (it was good to begin with) against most opponents, closed down the shop and counted on a brilliance of some of our offensive players to create and opening and score. It worked well, we had some great results, draw against Chelsea, win against Arsenal ecc. but maybe the other teams found us out now. They realized we're not very imaginative in building our attacks, they just needed to pack their defence, deny space we used to exploit by collecting Pelle's layouts and make us cross balls incessantly to a crowded penalty box to little on no avail.
    So what I'm saying I would go to basics, the way we played for about first ten matches of the campaign. Tadić on the left, he's best there. Bertrand is always supporting the attacks, towing his marker with him, allowing Tadić a bit more space to create something. Tadić is to me by far our most creative player and I think we desperately need him back in the team. Maybe the biggest difference from us now ans in the beginning of the season is out of form or misused Tadić. We need him back, on the left, working with Bertrand. On the right he's not as effective because he has to cut in on his left foot, and also because Clyne is at times playing too far from the touchline, Bertrand is better in that regard.
    Then I'd start Long on the right flank. Long's advantage is that he makes runs. That's huge, we need that. Other players sometimes are far too often expecting and waiting for the ball to come to their feet. And when you're waiting, you're easy to mark. Long doesn't wait, he's always active, looking for space to run into, taking his marker with him, breaking the defensive line, opening space for other. So we don't want him for something he can create for himself, but to occupy defenders and free space for others.
    I left Pelle in the team because he's crucial for the way we play and I don't think that the goal drought is all his fault. I believe if all the other things were set in the order I suggested, he would have an easier time. Now, he gets absolutely no support, I think it's evident. Nobody is challenging the opponent's center back or defensive midfielder, they comfortably hold their position and concentrate solely on Pelle, there's only so much he can do.
    Finally, JWP ahead of Davis. Davis is great, mainly in recycling possession. But we are not that team anymore, we do not recycle possession, or at least we're not comfortable doing that. When it was Pochettino's team, we'd pass the teams to death. Death by a thousand cuts, ar thousand passes at least. Davis was stellar in that composition. But we're much more direct these days, we're looking for the fastest and the most vertical way to come in front of the opponent's goal. Davis doesn't fit much in that style of play. He wants to recycle possession, but we don't want that. We want to be direct, and from our nominally offensive midfielder we want a probing, risky, defence splitting pass. Now I'm not saying Davis can't do that, but it's not his thing really. JWP is a little better in that regard. Not much though, but If i were to categorize passes into backwards, sideways and forward passes, I'd say JWP tips Davis in the forward pass department just a small bit. And also JWP used to be good at crosses, maybe he rediscovers his mojo. But both are far behind, say, Eriksen, in terms of creativity.

     
    #41
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
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  2. SAINTDON13

    SAINTDON13 Well-Known Member

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    #42
  3. SAINTDON13

    SAINTDON13 Well-Known Member

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    The Presser has just finished hopefully someone techy can post it on here later because it was quite interesting for once.
     
    #43
  4. Lff

    Lff Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly why I liked Cork in our team. You need the one to move forward with the ball and engage the forwards. I know there are no stats for it but I would lay a bet that Cork would be way ahead if you counted the pass before the assist. He was the one who was able to get the other midfield players in behind the opposition defence.

    The irony of him leaving is that I suspect he'd have had a lot of game-time recently.

    I will honestly try to make this my last Cork post, but I can't promise!
     
    #44
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  5. SAINTDON13

    SAINTDON13 Well-Known Member

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    Normally Toby will be available! As long as he gets through the session today, (it's his 26th Birthday today, hope he doesn't overdo the celebrations!), no other injury problems.
     
    #45
  6. Clem Fandango

    Clem Fandango Well-Known Member

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    I expect a round off applause if we have a clean sheet after 3 minutes.
     
    #46
  7. SAINTDON13

    SAINTDON13 Well-Known Member

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    Keep it going for another 87 minutes and we might win?
     
    #47
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  8. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    Croatia Saint - interesting post (I didn't quote it due to it's length). Funny how people see football differently. To me, over the past two seasons, Steven Davis has been the player most likely to open up the opponents defense; not with long, direct through ball, but with a little 5-6 yarder slipped behind a CB... that was more relevant when he was playing one-two's off of a Lambert/Lallana type and then into a Jayrod .... a la Jayrod's goal v Chelsea.

    I also worry a little about the interpretation of 'direct' from either JWP or Davis. To me, the direct play should be from Elia/Mane and by direct, I mean running at people. I'd be happy if by direct you meant playing balls on the floor in between the full back and CB for the wide player to run onto. I feel we having been playing direct to Pelle too much recently and it has not worked.
     
    #48
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  9. RSS

    RSS Well-Known Member

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    Fat chance. We'd need to score!
     
    #49
  10. SAINTDON13

    SAINTDON13 Well-Known Member

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    We need to out shout the Palace fans, that's not easy they are probably the loudest in the Premier.
     
    #50

  11. SAINTDON13

    SAINTDON13 Well-Known Member

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  12. SAINTDON13

    SAINTDON13 Well-Known Member

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  13. I Sorry I Ruined The Party

    I Sorry I Ruined The Party Well-Known Member

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    Neither JWP or Davis is a through-balling, tricky passing kinda guy to me. Although they can both make that pass on occasion just because they're just decent overall passers.

    I think Cork bought a bit of chaos to the game. Usually in a good way. He just had sort of a frenetic playing style that sort of sucked players to him and I think helped disrupt their shape. Wanyama and Schneiderlin are both better passers, but they are a bit more relaxed/flowing in their play and the opposition gives them more respect and space and sits back more. I really liked having him on the bench for that reason, but I wouldn't start him most days.

    But I've been saying I think we should go back to the formation we were using earlier in the year. I would play Davis over JWP but it probably doesn't make a difference. However, after watching these last few games I'm not sure that's the answer. The offense just looks like pants. ALL of them. Pelle, Tadic, Elia, Mane.
     
    #53
  14. SAINTDON13

    SAINTDON13 Well-Known Member

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    #54
  15. tomw24

    tomw24 Well-Known Member
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    #55
  16. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    Don't get excited yet... the hearing will go like this"

    Committee: "Mr. Jedinak, why do you think that you should not be found guilty?"
    Jedinak: "Well it was late in the game and I had my mind on preparation for our next match away to Southampton, when I ..."
    Committee: "Wait, did you say next game is away to Southampton?"
    Jedinak: "yes"
    Committee: "OK, no ban."

    #conspiracytheory
     
    #56
  17. Dark Lord SFC

    Dark Lord SFC Well-Known Member

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    There aren't going to many of them coming down to the match apparently so should have a chance of out signing them
    Looking like the lowest attendance of the season as it stands at the moment, circa 27k ....come on everyone we need to get behind the boys!
     
    #57
  18. SAINTDON13

    SAINTDON13 Well-Known Member

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    Sky says he has until 6 pm tomorrow to challenge the charge, I guess if they do appeal he could be able to play?
     
    #58
  19. Whiteley Saint

    Whiteley Saint Well-Known Member

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    Love his accent :emoticon-0115-inlov
     
    #59
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  20. SAINTDON13

    SAINTDON13 Well-Known Member

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    To be sure, I speak from experience he is absolutely right about how painful that particular injury is, I too recovered relatively quickly but I still get a reminder now and then!
     
    #60

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