1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Ospina, Özil & Mertesacker

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by BrunelGooner, Feb 26, 2015.

  1. Tiddler

    Tiddler Hoshu-tekina

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    4,886
    Likes Received:
    2,542
    I predict that in a year from now we will be saying Sanchez needs to be sold. I love his work rate & tenacity, but he loses the ball far too much, often because he believes his own headlines and that he is infallable.

    So, I still love the little guy, but think it will be a fairly short honeymoon.

    OP - keep the goalie and get rid of the other 2 along with Jack.
     
    #21
  2. Arsenal87

    Arsenal87 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    Messages:
    12,303
    Likes Received:
    968
    I'll make a bet that doesn't happen.

    You can't compare Sanchez to any of the players getting slagged off, even if Sanchez plays a few bad games, you can bet fans won't be calling for his head because 99% of the time he tries his ass off.
     
    #22
  3. TheOXOCube:5pur2

    TheOXOCube:5pur2 Pride of North London

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    10,695
    Likes Received:
    391
    Yeah. Still wish he wouldn't hold on to the ball for so long. Don't think its ego as much as its his style but it does lead to him getting dispossessed plenty. He's still been overall our best player this season though he's faded somewhat as of late. A rest vs. QPR should do him a world of good, especially with Oxo back to hold the fort.
     
    #23
  4. PeterRICK

    PeterRICK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,341
    Likes Received:
    351
    Brunel, it was more your choice of words I was getting at, rather than disagreeing about Merts performances (though I think you're hugely ott). I use words like disgrace and deplorable for people who deserve it, like John Terry, Suarez, Ashley Young and anybody who watches X Factor.

    I disagree about Ozil too. I think the entire squad should accept responsibility for that performance, why do we persist with the need to lump all blame on one or two individuals? All it ever does is alienate those players and shatter any fragile confidence they may have left.

    I doubt anyone has seen Ospina enough in previous leagues to know what he's capable of but all reports seem positive. I've witnessed keeper after keeper fail at the club with the crowd getting on their backs so I'm willing to be patient.

    Don't mistake my defending the players for acceptance at that result - I'm as angry as the next fan, I just think some see things in black and white and refuse to accept there are shades of grey.
     
    #24
  5. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    4,405
    Likes Received:
    2,752
    To be honest we can dispute the semantics all day long but the crux of the matter is that Per has not shown any strong leadership or captain qualities. His performances have been something I'd expect from a young teenager making their debut, not a well seasoned professional with an abundance of experience.

    Going deeper than that though I just don't see how he suits Wenger's style of play. If we want to play a high line and squeeze higher up the pitch we need mobile, agile centre-halves and Mertesacker is not that man. He doesn't have any recovery pace either which isn't his fault as he isn't that type of player and that's fair enough. But he is too slow for the style of play we want to incorporate.

    It's this simple really - we smashed our transfer record by signing this player to be the difference in tight games or against opposition who are well organised. This isn't just based on yesterday; this is based on every big game he's played in so far where he has failed to truly make a difference. Sometimes we need players we can rely on to dig deep and grab games by the scruff of the neck - Ozil isn't that player.

    I agree that we should give him more time but I haven't seen any evidence to suggest he will significantly improve. And I reiterate - his lack of height really does bother me.
     
    #25
  6. PeterRICK

    PeterRICK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,341
    Likes Received:
    351
    Weren't we bemoaning before Per our need for a more level-headed CB who'd sit back, win headers and be a calming influence a few seasons ago? Last year the vast majority loved the BFG and he was a breath of fresh air after our kamikaze defenders before him. I totally agree he's been a shadow of that player this season and the biggest worry for me is his recent lack of leadership. I still believe we can get him back to the level of consistency we enjoyed last season but I think it's dependent on a consistent back 4 and midfield. Our constant chopping and changing team is currently helping nobody.

    You say we want to push up the pitch and press but is that the case? I agree we've been doing it in some games (certainly against Monaco the f*ckwits) but is that what Wenger wants? I don't think so as has been shown by our recent tactics of sitting deeper and hitting on the break. I think it's mroe a lack of discipline which is letting everyone down at the moment. Reports after the game are that it's the angriest Arsene has ever been at the team which would support this theory.

    I also expect more from Özil but prior to the Monaco debacle I think he has been slowly improving. Nowhere near where he should be obviously but he was definitely making baby steps in the right direction which, considering he's just come back from injury, isn't unexpected.
     
    #26

  7. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    4,405
    Likes Received:
    2,752
    @PeterRICK - Generally Per did well on the whole for last season but there aren't any excuses for the massive drop in his performance level other than the fact that he simply doesn't have the same motivation anymore - which is by his own admission. When a player loses motivation, what exactly is the point of continuing to play that player? You can't do anything about it except drop him, especially 2/3rds of the way through the season. We need players who are going to be committed for the cause and who will help us in this crucial stage of the season. Mertesacker just isn't reliable enough. Paulista's going to have to adapt to this league at some point and he can't really be that much worse than Per so I wouldn't be against playing him more.

    In regards to pressing higher up the pitch, I think he does want us to press higher up the pitch against the lesser sides as it's easier to exploit their weaknesses; it's against the bigger sides that he wants us to drop deeper and play counter-attacking football.

    Although the players let everyone down the other night, Monaco had the right players to neutralise our main sources of attacking threat. Kondogbia and Moutinho provided defensive stability and cohesion in midfield and then as soon as they won the ball, they attacked and broke forward. The key to beating us is having a physical presence in midfield who can break up play and redistribute the ball to set up an attack - Kondogbia and Moutinho wiped the floor with our midfield and that was a key reason why we lost the game.
     
    #27
  8. PeterRICK

    PeterRICK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,341
    Likes Received:
    351
    I disagree with your last paragraph. If Monaco were so great at neutralising us how come we created so many wonderful chances to score? It was plain embarrassing how badly Giroud, Welbeck and to a lesser extent Theo did with the opportunities given to them and had we even put half of those away then it would have been a very different evening. Still awful, but less so! I thought Monaco were a really poor side and we gifted them their goals. They set up exactly how we knew they would but we just beat ourselves, plain and simple.

    Think we'll have to agree to disagree with Per. I think, if you're correct about his desire, that it's something that you can get back. Not sure why he'd feel that way as I get the impression he loves the club but who knows what goes on in people's minds.
     
    #28
  9. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    4,405
    Likes Received:
    2,752
    We didn't. We had a two good chances in the second half, but they could have easily increased their lead quite significantly. Swings and roundabouts really.

    I agree to an extent, but it is not the first time that a side who has had a physical, mobile presence in midfield has ended up dominating us which has resulted in us losing/not winning a game. It's something we need to address. Coquelin has done well as a stop gap, but I don't feel he is the answer.

    This is what he said. I'll quote from the link I gave in the article but these are his words:

    ''Personally it is difficult at the moment because that was really a long season last year and to come back from that World Cup and get the motivation back''

    This was towards the end of October may I add so we were well into the season. Can he get it back? Yes. But at the moment he is a liability and he just doesn't seem to be there physically or mentally. For that reason he needs to be on the bench for a while, in my opinion. Ideally though I would prefer to sell him and bring in another centre-half.
     
    #29
  10. PeterRICK

    PeterRICK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,341
    Likes Received:
    351
    F*ck me sideways man, I could have finished 2 or 3 or Giroud's chances 9 times out of 10 and I'd have died of embarrassment at missing Welbeck's chance with the goal at his mercy.
     
    #30
  11. Jayramfootball

    Jayramfootball Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    109
    You are quite right that Ozil will not grab games by the scruff of the neck because he has not done that in his whole career. It is like slagging off Sanchez because he is not a good goalkeeper.
    What really is simple is that Ozil will create chances, which he does regularly.
    I think that your judgement is clouded by the fee and your incorrect expectations of what kind of player he is.
     
    #31
  12. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    4,405
    Likes Received:
    2,752
    My judgement isn't clouded by anything. Not one single Arsenal fan out there can say to me that Ozil has justified the fee we paid for him. He does not do enough in the bigger games and sometimes we need a player to step up and produce a moment of magic - whether it's a delicious through ball or a stunning goal - and Ozil doesn't do enough of either. It is far too easy for opposition sides to limit his influence and part of that I believe is down to his languid style of play. There are times when he gets even the very basics wrong and that is not what you expect from a player you've paid so much money for.

    So again, I will say - if there is ANY truth to the rumour that Bayern Munich are after Ozil, and the fee is anywhere in the region of £30m+, I believe it is something we should seriously consider. Unfortunately I just don't see him cutting it for us.
     
    #32
  13. Jayramfootball

    Jayramfootball Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    109
    Are you saying that Mesut Ozil does not create chances? Again you are showing you don't know much about him if you expect stunning goals as that is also not his game. For Real Madrid he was a creator of chances and that is it. He was brilliant at it the best in the league. He is also creating chances for Arsenal but for some reason Arsenal fans expect him to be a combination of Messi, Ryan Shawcross, Alan Shearer and Vieira and Bergkamp just because you paid a lot of money for him.
    You sound like a child that has read too many Roy of the Rovers comics.
    Which other players do you think are playing better than Ozil since his return from injury? Who is 'cutting it' at Arsenal? I would be interested to know if you think you should sell the whole team.
     
    #33
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
    PeterRICK likes this.
  14. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    4,405
    Likes Received:
    2,752
    I was talking about stunning goals as an example. Although it is shocking that a 'world class' midfielder has such a bad shot on him, considering he plays in quite an advanced position. And I know that isn't part of his game but that doesn't mean he shouldn't work on it. And yes I am saying he doesn't create enough chances. You can squabble over the statistics all you want, I prefer to use my eyes to watch him play and he has been slightly above average at best for Arsenal.

    I am going to try my hardest to not be condescending towards you because you still are not understanding what I am saying. So let me explain this to you again.

    I don't care what he did at Madrid. That's all in the past. I know he has talent. My issue with Ozil is that his lack of effort, his misplaced passes (and there have been more than I expect), his poor body language, the fact he slows our play down too often and the fact that he is too easy to dispossess. No one expects him to be a versatile superstar, but he hasn't shown his quality on a regular basis and is not being picked on merit but on reputation.

    I think we have some very good players but our squad is very unbalanced and we have also have too many journeymen in our side who will not help us win league titles or Champions Leagues. We need to revamp our squad quite significantly if we want to be a competitive side.
     
    #34
  15. PeterRICK

    PeterRICK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,341
    Likes Received:
    351
    You can squabble over statistics but you prefer to use you eyes.. Are you serious? You're not the only one who watches games and I see a man who creates solid chances game after game which get squandered. I also think the lack of effort thing the lack of effort thing is a myth nurtured along by the fact he looks a moody f*cker all the time. You may hate stats or ignore them but he runs far more than most realise.

    Where I do agree with you and I mentioned it before is our balance, or lack of it. We have a lot of square pegs for round holes. These guys may all be talented but they're not necessarily what is needed. For example I love Alexis but what's the point in having a player who chases everything if everyone else won't back him up? He just runs himself into the ground for nothing. I'm not for one second suggesting we get rid of him, it's merely an example of contrasting styles.

    FYI you did come across as condescending. I find if you mention that you want to avoid it, you've already failed. It's right up there with "I don't want to be rude/sexist/mean etc but..."
     
    #35
    Jayramfootball likes this.
  16. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    4,405
    Likes Received:
    2,752
    I guess we all view the game differently, then. And for the record, I do look at statistics but as you and I both know they can be deceiving so I don't pay too much attention to them (or try not to). As for Ozil creating countless chances, we must be watching two different players because I haven't seen this. Certainly not against the better sides anyway.

    Do you honestly feel Ozil has been worth the fee we paid for him?
     
    #36
  17. Jayramfootball

    Jayramfootball Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    109
    I was understanding what you were saying but I disagree with you and believe you don't understand the player Ozil is. You want him to be something he is not.
    As for him creating chances he does regularly whether you see them or not.
     
    #37
  18. Jayramfootball

    Jayramfootball Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    109
    I think he is brilliant at linking play with others and creating chances. The money paid for him doesn't really influence my opinion about what he is good at.
     
    #38
  19. BrunelGooner

    BrunelGooner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    4,405
    Likes Received:
    2,752
    You're right. It's completely ridiculous of me to expect Ozil to complete basic five yard passes and not lose the ball easily. My expectations are far too high.
     
    #39
  20. cini65

    cini65 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    Messages:
    6,566
    Likes Received:
    2,027
    I expect a £42m player to impress me more than Ozil does. If he had been on loan all this time and the loan was ending right now and Real said "right, you can now have him for £42m"... How many would say 'deal'?
     
    #40

Share This Page