The North London Power-Shift

[gooner4ever]

M


Me? I think that compared to Arsenal, given the difference in turnover, revenue, income streams etc, we don't do too bad to get as close to you as we do. Obviously, we are at a huge disadvantage as too ground capacity, etc.

I think, as you found, the support is there - we just need the appropriate space to accommodate them.

True assessment. You have come close some seasons. I wonder how you will cope in the future with the financial restraints that come with paying for a new stadium, as it does limit the money available for transfers and wages, as we have experienced in last 10 years.

you will need the income from CL to be able to finance a new stadium and to attract top players, so being in top 4 is the aim for Spurs.
i know many fans took the piss over the Fourth Place Trophy but any Spurs fan will tell you that it's what they need to win - but there are now 7 clubs capable of winning it each year so it means 3 will miss out and then they will be left further behind

 

[gooner4ever]

I've given my opinion many times. There has been a shift to us over the last 10 years - you were winning leagues before that and we were mid table. Now we are usually within a few points of you - many seasons it could have gone our way on the last day. But we are still behind you however, for the reasons NSIS mentioned above. We are closer, but not there.........yet. Is any of that deluded?

No not deluded, you closed the gap while we were financing the Emirates. What remains to be seen is whether the gap will reopen now we have paid for it and you have to pay for your new stadium. It was a massive task for us to stay competitive and be financial prudent and if you don't get the first bit right the second bites you in the arse. Look at the state of Leeds who thought they were a big club, spent money they didn't have, and are ****ed.
i know Spurs fans won't like to agree but Wenger has been a genius to get us to where we are now

 

[gooner4ever]

I'm making West Ham v Spurs comparisons btw, not Arsenal : )

It is same argument for WH v Spurs as it is Spurs v Arsenal. You need to be at top level to attract top players and then have a stadium to bring in the revenue to pay the top players. You do have the advantage over Spurs in that you won't be spending £450 million on a new stadium as you will be renting yours.
i do think that Spurs missed a trick when Olympic stadium was up for grabs, in that they didn't go for sharing it with West Ham. That way it's being used every week and generates more money

 

[Hoddle is a god]

It's heartening for me to see that this debate is now getting fully under way, despite PESKIE's best attempts to derail it. As someone said earlier, something is definitely happening, we just don't know what, yet.

 

[NSIS]

No doubt that financing the new stadium will impose some financial constraints upon us. However, Levy is a very astute financier, so we'll see how he does on this one.

Given the price of players of any ability nowadays, I expect to see more and more emphasis placed on youth development, increased scouting recruitment etc. We already have a couple of decent quality players who came through from our youth system - Kane, Mason. And others such as Bentaleb, Walker, who were picked up as youngsters for nothing or next to nothing. I expect to see that continue - not just at Spurs, but at many other clubs too.

Yes, there will always be the likes of Chelsea & City with the capability to splash £50mil plus on a player. But, for the rest, scouting and development will be the future.

 

[Trick_WHUFC]

You know it's true. You're only backing him up because he's a fellow spud. If it were a West Ham fan intimating that here had been a power shift to them from Spurs, you'd be ripping the piss out of them, guaranteed

As I have stated on various threads, we are certainly getting closer to them. We have outplayed them twice this season and had we picked up 6 points, they couldn't have had too many complaints. 5 points between us with a dozen games left would suggest to me we don't have that much catching up to do. We are in our new ground in 18 months time. We will have more money and will be able to attract better players.

Spuds will be a selling club for the next decade whilst they pay for their new ground. Take Harry Kane out of that team and they would be bottom half.

I would say this particular power shift is well under way. As Lee said. Give it 5 years (considerably less IMO) and let's see where the two clubs are.

 

[gooner4ever]

As I have stated on various threads, we are certainly getting closer to them. We have outplayed them twice this season and had we picked up 6 points, they couldn't have had too many complaints. 5 points between us with a dozen games left would suggest to me we don't have that much catching up to do. We are in our new ground in 18 months time. We will have more money and will be able to attract better players.

Spuds will be a selling club for the next decade whilst they pay for their new ground. Take Harry Kane out of that team and they would be bottom half.

I would say this particular power shift is well under way. As Lee said. Give it 5 years (considerably less IMO) and let's see where the two clubs are.

So the true power shift is between West Ham and Spurs then and HIAG has missed this. It does seem more likely that you have closed the gap between you two than Spurs closing the gap between them and Arsenal.
as you say you will very soon have the new stadium with extra income to get in the top talent, and more importantly to keep them.
i could see you overtaking Spurs whilst they finance their stadium, and them having to sell their best players (which they do already) as they are unlikely to be in CL.
all teams have youth policies and try to bring them into the first team yet they also need to have some world class players as well, and perhaps this is were Spurs will lack as they sell on any decent player and may not be able to get on world class players - a situation we were in but have now come out of.

 

[Trick_WHUFC]

So the true power shift is between West Ham and Spurs then and HIAG has missed this. It does seem more likely that you have closed the gap between you two than Spurs closing the gap between them and Arsenal.

Well he did say something is happening but is not sure what. He was right. But the power shift has nothing to do with Arsenal. What he was picking up on, is the fact that spuds are about to be replaced by West Ham as the third best team in London.

 

[NSIS]

Er...a tad premature, I think! Let's face it, this is the first season in ages when you've done anything more than stave off relegation - many seasons not even avoiding that.

Yes, you have one of two decent players in Sahko. Valencia, Reid, but your squad depth is next to non-existent. A long, long way to go before you're anywhere near the top 3 in London.

 

[PINKIE]

I've given my opinion many times. There has been a shift to us over the last 10 years - you were winning leagues before that and we were mid table. Now we are usually within a few points of you - many seasons it could have gone our way on the last day. But we are still behind you however, for the reasons NSIS mentioned above. We are closer, but not there.........yet. Is any of that deluded?

This could actually become a sensible discussion rather than the dozy wum attempt that HIAG intended after all

Firstly though the definition of 'power shift' is that power has changed hands, otherwise all you're talking about is a lessening of the gap.

I would agree though that the gap has lessened in the last decade, the reason for this is two fold:

(1) Spurs benefited from Arsenal's financial restrictions after the stadium move, where the club publicly stated that they had to sell their most valuable players each season to manage the debt. We embarked on a youth policy, which didn't see us garner as much success as the previous decade, although Wenger's brilliance ensured that we still finished in the top 4, qualified for the champions league and finished above the spuds every season.

(2) The huge injection of cash into City and Chelsea meant that coupled with Arsenal's restrictions, we were never going to be able to compete with them, thus a battle for 3rd and 4th became Arsenal's target. Whilst other teams like Liverpool and Spurs spent big to try and get into the top 4, Arsenal did it on a shoe-string. But with Arsenal not finishing 1st and 2nd it meant that the gap between them and Spurs was narrower.

To summarise, there has been no shift, only a temporary lessening of the gap. But with the stadium all but paid for and Arsenal now able to compete financially with the oil baron clubs due to our sound financial management, then the gap could well start to widen again to the gulf that is the norm.

 

[Trick_WHUFC]

A long, long way to go before you're anywhere near the top 3 in London.

Just 5 points behind you with almost 3/4 of the season gone. You've only managed to beat us once in 5 attempts. We've outplayed you twice this season and spent a fair chunk of the season above you.

Doesn't seem like "a long way to go" to catch up with you to me. I would say we are almost there.

You are quite right our squad depth is an issue. With a slightly stronger bench on Sunday we would have won. This issue will be dealt with in the summer and won't be a problem next season.

 

[NSIS]

Just 5 points behind you with almost 3/4 of the season gone. You've only managed to beat us once in 5 attempts. We've outplayed you twice this season and spent a fair chunk of the season above you.

Doesn't seem like "a long way to go" to catch up with you to me. I would say we are almost there.

You are quite right our squad depth is an issue. With a slightly stronger bench on Sunday we would have won. This issue will be dealt with in the summer and won't be a problem next season.

That's one season - this season. When you're up there year after year, maybe I could take this assertion a little more seriously!...

 

[Trick_WHUFC]

Exactly. Even after a very turbulent ten years for us, you are still within touching distance.

Now, with our finances under control, sensible owners, new stadium and the overall improvement of the running of our club, we are only going to get stronger.

 

[gooner4ever]

That's one season - this season. When you're up there year after year, maybe I could take this assertion a little more seriously!...

We could say this about this Spurs!


in the last decade you had the opportunity to catch up with us but you failed.
i can only see us going up a gear and with you being stuck in neutral the gap between us widening, and you maybe overtaken by West Ham.

 

[SpursDisciple]

This could actually become a sensible discussion rather than the dozy wum attempt that HIAG intended after all

Firstly though the definition of 'power shift' is that power has changed hands, otherwise all you're talking about is a lessening of the gap.

I would agree though that the gap has lessened in the last decade, the reason for this is two fold:

(1) Spurs benefited from Arsenal's financial restrictions after the stadium move, where the club publicly stated that they had to sell their most valuable players each season to manage the debt. We embarked on a youth policy, which didn't see us garner as much success as the previous decade, although Wenger's brilliance ensured that we still finished in the top 4, qualified for the champions league and finished above the spuds every season.

(2) The huge injection of cash into City and Chelsea meant that coupled with Arsenal's restrictions, we were never going to be able to compete with them, thus a battle for 3rd and 4th became Arsenal's target. Whilst other teams like Liverpool and Spurs spent big to try and get into the top 4, Arsenal did it on a shoe-string. But with Arsenal not finishing 1st and 2nd it meant that the gap between them and Spurs was narrower.

To summarise, there has been no shift, only a temporary lessening of the gap. But with the stadium all but paid for and Arsenal now able to compete financially with the oil baron clubs due to our sound financial management, then the gap could well start to widen again to the gulf that is the norm.

Would it have killed you to say

(3) Spurs improved under Jol/Redknapp and after a couple of years of stagnating, look like they may be on the up again. Having Bentaleb, Mason, Townsend and Kane in the team is a sign that they haven't just bought the improvement. When the front four is Townsend, Eriksen, Chadli and Kane that is a very inexpensive team compared to Sanchez, Ozil, Walcott and Giroud/Wellbeck

 

[SpursDisciple]

Firstly though the definition of 'power shift' is that power has changed hands, otherwise all you're talking about is a lessening of the gap.

Good point, ruined only by the fact that I didn't say power shift. I believe that phrase started on your board and I don't use it

 

[NSIS]

We could say this about this Spurs!


in the last decade you had the opportunity to catch up with us but you failed.
i can only see us going up a gear and with you being stuck in neutral the gap between us widening, and you maybe overtaken by West Ham.

There has been a far bigger gulf between Spurs and West Ham over recent years. Whereas the gap between Arsenal and Spurs has been very tight.

Discounting this season, we have always been far closer to Arsenal than WHU have been too us.

There's no doubt that things will get tighter and more competitive for the top 4 places in the Prem. At the moment, two of those places look pretty much nailed on in Chelsea & City. That leaves two places to be fought over by, at the moment, Spurs, Arsenal, Utd & L'pool. Again, at the moment, Arsenal & Utd are the favourites for those two places. However, it will get far more competitive and one slip and you can find yourself overtaken - as Utd were last season, and may be again this.

 

[gooner4ever]

There has been a far bigger gulf between Spurs and West Ham over recent years. Whereas the gap between Arsenal and Spurs has been very tight.

Discounting this season, we have always been far closer to Arsenal than WHU have been too us.

Hence the true power shift is the one where West Ham are closing in on you.
you aren't any closer to us than you have been in the last decade and the gap between us is actually bigger than you think.
Imo Arsenal are a big club, Spurs are a medium sized club hoping to move up, and West Ham are also in the medium sized group and their ambition is to move up the pecking order within that group

 

[NSIS]

Hence the true power shift is the one where West Ham are closing in on you.
you aren't any closer to us than you have been in the last decade and the gap between us is actually bigger than you think.
Imo Arsenal are a big club, Spurs are a medium sized club hoping to move up, and West Ham are also in the medium sized group and their ambition is to move up the pecking order within that group

That may be their ambition, but it will take far more than one season of finishing in the top half of the prem to convince me, or, I suspect, many others.

 

[gooner4ever]

That may be their ambition, but it will take far more than one season of finishing in the top half of the prem to convince me, or, I suspect, many others.

i think that WHU are better placed to catch Spurs up than Spurs are to catching Arsenal up.
This is because:
they won't have to spend £450 million to build a new stadium and will be able to spend that money on improving their squad.
They won't have to sell any of their best players as they will be able to afford to keep them.
They are already challenging for a Europa place and could become a top 6 side.
They will have the same PL revenue as you but will extra income from having a larger stadium.
Another factor to consider is that WHU could be taken over as they might tempt a new owner who won't need to spend money on a stadium and can invest in players just like the Man City scenario !
so to sum up it would seem that HIAG is right in that something is happening to Spurs, it's called transition !
Spurs are going to be left further behind Arsenal and could also be over taken by West Ham