Sorry pal, modern football has drastically changed from 1987, the league cup, or capital one cup, doesn't mean much these days when stacked with European football, that's just the way it is. The be all and end all in football is taking your team to the top, yes that includes trophies, but it also includes playing in the best competition to attract the best players, and to make money, because if you have a lot of money it allows you to become a proper successful club, that's just the way it is. And simply winning the league cup, but missing out on european football, is not becoming the be all and end of all. You can't want to be the best, then ignore and set aside the things that will help you get there, like MONEY, and the money comes from being in the UCL, and top quality players, which is what also attracts players to the club if you have UCL football. You think a gem like Sanchez, or someone like Ozil, would ever come to our club if we weren't in the UCL? **** no, and then how fair our chances in becoming a dominant football team capable of winning trophies? Sacrifice a long term plan for consistent success just for the odd capital one cup? No thanks! I seem to remember Boro winning the capital one cup back in 2004, our invicinble season, where the **** has that taken them since then? Heck even Birmingham who beat us in 2010, where have they gone since they won the capital one cup? Who here would want to trade places with Birmingham just to have that cup? Yeah, exactly, NOBODY.
And so I raise the question, would you rather be in Arsenal's position, or Birmingham with the capital one cup, ;-). If you could have it right now for your club, which position would you honestly choose?
Well of course Arsenal is in the best position so them but its best to try and win as many competitions as you can and I don't think Arsenal would ever get to the position of where winning the League Cup would put them on a downward spiral as too big a club, always has been and always will doesn't matter if you got in the Champions League this season or not. (ie: Look at Man U though they have had to pay extra wages and transfer money to get the players they want)
Sorry Pal but who would you say would be the more successful club,one that won the FA Cup for 10 years on the bounce or one that played in the CL for 10 years ?
That's a good point, but the reason we can say that, is because we have laid the foundations to be in such a position, so that's my point, you can't lay such foundations without consistently being in Europe, making **** loads of money, which also allow you to get the best players.
When you go to the Emirates you can see banners proclaiming the trophies we've won.There are two there for our League Cup wins in 1987 & 1993.There are no banners proclaiming the years we've played in the Champions League though
Well thankfully I don't have to answer it as it never happened, . And it also depends, I'm not saying winning trophies is bad, I want to win trophies, but I am saying the odd COC victory doesnt= greater success than getting into the Champions League. At the end of the day, no team is gonna win the fa cup 10 years on the bounce, heck only Arsenal and a few other clubs have managed to win the thing back-back, so what matters now is laying the foundations that will allow you to properly compete, and properly win trophies, rather than winning it on a 1 off and going back into obscurity.
And the reason we get to be in the Emirates is because of things like Champions League football, attracting the best players etc etc. We wouldn't be playing in the Emirates if we were just winning the odd league cup. The entire reason we moved into the Emirates was to also be able to properly compete in Europe, not to move into a 300 million plus costing stadium with 60,000 seats just to win the league cup.
I'm not taking sides here or necessarily agree with either of you... But I'd rather someone made their opinions based on their own free will rather than what they feel they should feel based on some banners. You can't force someone to value the same things that you do... And it doesn't make that person wrong if they don't value the same things you do.
Before we won the FA cup, a lot of people were taking the p1$$ that we were always going for the "Top 4" trophy. Personally I'd rather watch Arsenal play great football and win the odd domestic cup that qualify for the Champions League year and year out and get nowhere in it and win nothing.
I know it's never happened I'm just asking you a hypothetical question on who you'd think as the more successful club
And just to sum up my position, I want to WIN trophies and get into Europe, it's not an either or. I don't buy the argument that just getting into Europe is good enough and like a trophy, and I also don't buy winning the COC makes you more successful than the club that does make it into the top 4. My definition of somewhat success, our last season, made top 4, and got 2 trophies, the Fa Cup and Community Shield, and that allowed us to get Sanchez who we all love watching now, and we're making **** loads of money again by being in Europe.
It depends, let's say they win it 10 times on the trot but consistently end up 15th, 12th, 13th etc, I wouldn't say they're more successful, the cup is the cup, as Wenger says you learn the true success of the team over a league because it's 38 games over several months.
I was thinking of your past history of winning league titles, FA cups, League Cups. I remember when you won the League Cup and FA Cup in the same season 1993. A few of my friends started to follow Arsenal then and have been since but only because you won both them cups probably would have been Chelsea, Liverpool, Man Utd or Tottenham. Same with Man City if they hadn't won the league or FA Cup I know a few people in Darlington who wouldn't be following them. People inside North London will always stick with either Tottenham or Arsenal but to be a massive club you need to be consistently successful or people will join the bandwagon of whoever is winning at that time.
European nights are great(I've been to the home legs of the Munich games for the past two seasons) but I'd rather be watching us winning trophies.I was far more upset coming home from Wembley after we lost to Birmingham than I was coming home from the Emirates after losing to Bayern Munich
What's the point of it all when the football we play now is less exciting and with passion that before? Take the Spurs derby game, how many of our players were flat and struggled to raise their level of play? Even in the second half a lot of them just didn't show up. This is the NLD for fecks sake, if you can't up your level then what's the bloody point?
Well despite that, at least we can say all the ingredients are there to take us to the top. the change that would be required would be managerial. Now at a club like Spurs, you can send Guardiola there and he still wouldnt be able to make them a championship winning side. For us it's a different story.
