Unemployment is just as bad, if not worse, in Sunderland, Newcastle, Manchester, Liverpool etc. We also have the more affluent East Riding on our doorstep. Other areas simply have more passion for football. Too many people in Hull are always looking for an excuse NOT to go and watch Hull City. I know we don't have the footballing heritage as those other areas, but there are still too many shallow people in Hull who aren't interested enough in the Tigers. Add to the mixture that joke pastime they call Rugby League, and you can maybe see why not every person in Hull is fully behind Hull City AFC.
You've over simplified; the people in this area are EVERY bit as passionate about football as anywhere else, it's just there's not very many of them - in our history we've never had great, long lasting, support - pre KC days our passionate hardcore support I would estimate at 3,000 ish. Since we moved to the KC our following (not hardcore support) has jumped dramatically, we've gained some hardcore but, I know for a fact we've lost a lot of the original 3,000. When were compared to all the other PL teams, and a number of Championship teams, it pains me to say, we're just minnows - Hull City has been on an upward spiral for a number of years, however, we seem to have come to a shuddering halt. I don't know the exact reasons for the stalling but I'm guessing it's probably a combination of the of oft mentioned issues of name change/high unemployment & low wages/team disillusionment/Rugby teams taking support ............ I fear there are no easy fixes for the malaise affecting the club or the fans.
Manchester and Liverpool house three of biggest clubs in the world and once of the biggest in England. A lot fans at them clubs are day trippers from around the world that are easy replaced by other day trippers. Sunderland and Newcastle are both one club and one sport cities. Your argument has no factual evidence.
I'm saying the vast majority of Hull's population couldn't care less about coming to watch us play Villa regardless of the ticket price. They are not Hull City supporters so they are not gutless. There is no organised anti-Allam protest, although there was a faint echo of one on Saturday. Perhaps if there was an organised campaign against the owner some of those who have been staying away would return. What is a true supporter? Someone who watched the full 90 odd minutes yesterday and stayed till the end and didn't boo? Yesterday was all about millionaire footballers not showing any passion for large parts of the game and comfortably losing to a poor Newcastle United side. Why would anyone, other than diehard City fans want to go through that experience again against Villa? Why would they care if we are relegated? The vast majority of people in Hull and the surrounding area are just not that bothered. The state of the club affects those that are bothered. Last season we lost more than 10% of our season ticket holders, many of them people that didn't boo and stayed till the end. The club didn't value them, called them hooligans and asked them to leave to be replaced by Hull Tigers fans. I'd rather they'd have stayed but they'd had enough. I wouldn't say its negativity I'd just say that after sacrificing most of their lives and a large proportion of their income Assem Allam's Tigers was no longer their football club so they gave up coming to the matches. Once he's gone some might come back but a percentage won't.
I stand by my claim that people aren't as passionate in this area as certain other areas when it comes to football. You seem to have backed up my claim by suggesting that our hardcore support isn't as high as certain other clubs. Personally I class all Hull City fans as supporters (especially those ones who continue to go to matches when we are out the Premier League). My beef is with those residents who don't go to games. I have genuine sympathy with those who really can't afford to go to games. But there are still to many people in this area who don't have a passion for the Tigers. I know the reasons certain people aren't supportive of our club ( apathy, our lack of historical success, wanting to align themselves with bigger clubs, RL etc). It is because of these reasons why Hull isn't seen as a "football City" to rival the likes of Sunderland and Newcastle etc. I was not having a go at the passion of Hull City supporters ( though some would when you see the way some of our fans moan and walk out of games early ). My venom as always been aimed at those Hull and East Riding residents who choose not to support our team, but take great delight in any misfortune that might come the way of Hull City AFC.
That's complete bollocks, the only games that didn't sell out those first 2 season we're when the away fans didn't sell their allocation, check the attendances, we topped 24k for the vast majority of games.
I wasn't suggesting that Hull should be compared in footballing terms to the NE and NW giants. I am also fully aware that RL dilutes support for football in Hull. Nevertheless there are football fans in this area who should get along to the KC to support Hull City rather than supporting glamour clubs from their armchairs. There are plenty of people in work who, for whatever shallow reason, choose not to support Hull City.
Here we go:- 08/09 Man Utd 24,945 Liverpool 24,942 Stoke 24,932 Arsenal 24,924 Sunderland 24,917 Newcastle 24,914 Middlesbrough 24,912 Chelsea 24,906 Bolton 24,903 Man City 24,902 West Ham 24,896 West Brom 24,879 Everton 24,845 Portsmouth 24,802 Tottenham 24,742 A.Villa 24,727 Blackburn 24,612 Fulham 24,525 Wigan 24,282 09/10 Liverpool 25,030 Arsenal 25,023 Sunderland 25,012 Man City 24,959 Wolves 24,957 Chelsea 24,957 West Ham 24,909 Tottenham 24,735 Everton 24,685 Man Utd 24,627 Stoke 24,516 Burnley 24,369 Fulham 24,361 Blackburn 24,124 A.Villa 23,842 Birmingham 23,759 Portsmouth 23,720 Bolton 22,999 Wigan 22,822 Piss poor away followings for all of those. So there we have it, stop talking ****, the sole reason we aren't selling out this season is because of the utterly detestable owner.
Maybe I am old fashioned but I believe genuine supporters go to matches regardless of the provocation heaped down by the owners. I am fully aware that not every person in this area is interested in Hull City. Nevertheless, we must have enough support to muster 23000 against Villa rather than say 21000. I know that our season ticket sales have gone down a little bit, yet our average gate is only a few hundred down on last season. Indeed the faces I see at the KC are the same faces I have always seen. I would suggest, despite the crazy rantings of The Allams, that less people have walked away than you say. I don't believe that fans have walked away in big numbers and replaced by day trippers. This is Hull, for god's sake , not London, Liverpool or Manchester.
3,000 walked away, some of them diehards in E1 to E3, some diehards in other parts of the ground. On the back of a good season and an FA Cup final most of those season passes were sold to other people. I don't see them all being renewed next year and I see a lot more diehards giving up. Like you I'm old fashioned, you stay to the end and applaud the team off, we even did it on Saturday. But unlike you I don't blame those who walked out, I want to convert them into people like me. Hull City is a community and because of the name change we are seeing it slowly dying. Its like a cancer that's eating into our vitals. If supporters are not appreciated and insulted there comes a time when people say stuff it. Look at CI and AN and see the number of people who have stopped going and are thinking of not going. If you can't keep supporters who have spent hundreds of thousands of pounds on City (including the beer and pie) over the years what hope have you of attracting the thousands needed to get behind the team against Villa? Our club needs some good news and a rallying call from the owners, manager and captain. The only way that Ehab and Assem Allam will be listened to by a significant section of our support is to come out and say We have withdrawn the application for arbitration, Hull City will be proudly put back as the name of our club, we are in a battle to keep us in the Premier League, let all do it together. Whether they will or not is up to them, but if they did some of the gloom around our club will lift and that would be reflected in the game against Villa.
Sorry Obi, but there is no evidence to show why season pass holders did not renew. The narrow band of supporters that you associate with may not be representative of all supporters. As for the hardcore of supporters, I would say that there is a large proportion of support that would not consider themselves as hardcore, in fact it is not even part of their language, they would not know what " hardcore" even means. For them, going to the KC is an affordable and relatively comfortable experience. They don't join in the singing and chants and if it wasn't for Christmas they would not buy anything from the club shop. I will not be going to the Villa match, mid week games are virtually impossible for me and this is the same for many others. I agree the pricing is wrong and this will effect the sales, but factors such as how the team are doing and the level of the opposition cannot be dismissed. It could equally be said that under a different owner and no name change issue, the attendance would only be marginally different.
There is no evidence, but you say that the people I'm talking about is a narrow band. A bit of having your cake and eating it methinks. We lost 3,000 pass holders, some of them will have been for the first season in Premier League, some I know personally didn't renew because of Allam, some didn't renew because they were treated like cattle and kicked out of the seats they'd had since the KC opened and some couldn't afford the price rise. How many in each group I cannot say but all those groups exist. I would call someone who sits, doesn't sing, maybe even an occasionally boo, but goes to every game they can as an hard core supporter. I'd like them to stand and sing but I'm not going to criticise them if they don't. Some hard core fans walked out 20 minutes before the end on Saturday. That is understandable as well. We can moan about it as much as we like but what are we, as a club and supporters, going to do about it. That responsibility lies squaring on the shoulders of the man that introduced the name change cancer into our club. I don't dismiss anything, the exodus on Saturday was perfectly understandable given the opposition and the performance. If nothing changes and we fail to perform against Villa, QPR and Sunderland we'll see more of it and the atmosphere will get worse. Saturday was a turning point, it is no longer about money, or ticket prices but about rallying the whole of Hull City AFC for a relegation battle. Allam issuing a press release in the name of "The Tigers" is not going to do it, neither is moaning about how fickle our fans are. What is required is something that will unite the club the team and the majority of supporters, for me that means abandoning the name change. Of course he could gamble we are a small insignificant minority and continue as he has done. If he loses and the price is relegation, the footballing debts and wage bill will take some dealing with and this time there will be no Adam Pearson encouraging players to leave. Its their shout.
You don't have to be a genius to figure out that ticket prices, seat moves and a general disaffection due to the actions of our owner have all had a negative impact on season pass renewals.
I really think that blaming Assem Allam for people leaving early on Saturday, is quite frankly clutching at straws. It was freezing cold, the long periods on Newcastle in possession and the lack of fight shown by the players could be more to blame than the name change. The movement from the east stand to the north stand was not opposed by any supporters group and leading lights in CTWD appeared to support the move surely discounts the train of thought that this was an anti fan plot by the club. Price rises after they where held down always are disproportionate. I would say that when the home club are getting beaten in the manner that we were, home ends empty, it's nothing to do with the name change its everything to do with being cold and pissed off.
Renewals.... How do those that do not renew a season pass affect the gate for Aston Villa or leaving early? They have gone haven't they? The renewals have nearly all been replaced by new pass holders. Gates are not generally affected by season pass holders are they? Gates are affected by the supporters who pick and chose which game they want to watch. What encouragement is there to buy a ticket for Aston Villa? It's too expensive and we are not winning, combined with a night mid week fixture and it's a no brainer. Nothing to do with the owner or the name change, absolutely nothing.
He wasn't directly responsible for people deciding to leave at 77 minutes, no I'll give you that. He is responsible for the cancer that has hung around our club since he reignited the name change application. The long periods of Newcastle possession came after the third goal and the exodus. The movement from the East Stand was opposed by Dutch with support from me. CTWD made a mistake in my view, which I've expressed time and time again on here. I have accepted OLM's explanation, but it was still a mistake. Dutch was right then and he's right, now. I don't think it was an anti-fan plot. I think it was something worse, they didn't care about their supporters. We were like lego pieces to be moved at their will without any consideration for our feelings. "Its my business I can do what I like. I don't have to ask anybody because nobody tells me what to do". The price rises have been and gone. Even if the price was a fiver for the Villa game you wouldn't sell many more tickets unless we get somebody spectacular today. The club is rotting, rumours of pay cuts for staff, programme sellers having their pay cut, job cuts and turnstile staff being assaulted by Newcastle fans because the automatic turnstiles didn't work, players that look like they are on a Sunday walk, a manager that looks like the stuffing being kicked out of him and now the fans are slowly turning. All this will get worse if we lose to Villa and QPR. Hull City AFC needs to be united and the only way to do that is to abandon the name change. As I said he can carry on thinking it was the weather and the performance, but the cancer within "The Tigers" is growing and isn't going to go away.
CTWD were set up to oppose the name change weren't they ? I still don't know what people expected them to do regarding the moving of home fans . Do you think the club would have listened to them ?
Agree with this. CTWD were not trusted by those fans supporting Allam and had no remit to try and engage with the club on other issues. They had already made up their mind and intended to move fans regardless.
