No problem Ubes, dashed off before I went to the match to keep this entertainng thread going. You can never have too many saucepans, it says so in the Bible/Torah/Koran (delete as appropriate). And staring blankly at shop windows is excellent meditation.
Sorry Stan, I wrote a reply to this last night and my phone battery died moments before posting. I didn't say that China was a democracy but that it has made a move towards it. I was loathe to mention the human rights issues because they deflected from the point. The opening of its borders to trade and the decentralisation of industry from the state to private companies are significant steps towards democracy. Already there are wealth gaps forming and there will be majority dissatisfaction that this will cause. There is now also a reliance on the outside world due to the trade links that leaves it exposed to consumer choice (ie environmental aware and ethical shopping) and, more generally, trade embargoes that can also cause pressure on the government and add to calls for change. Compared to its previously insular nature, it has moved on massively and I don't think the freedoms you mention were ever going to be the first liberties to be granted. I have little doubt that it will get there eventually.
Trust me mate, I am very familiar with China to the extent that for a long period they would not grant me a visa to enter the country. I agree they have let the genie out of the bottle with economic reform, the rest will follow.....in a long time and not without bloodshed. At the moment Xi Jinping, head of state, the communist party and the military, is busily creating a Mao style dictatorship by purging any perceived opposition under the guise of anti-corruption initiatives. It's a very nasty regime, which will get nastier as economic growth slows.
See the Muslims are taking the latest cartoon well. Just another few killed and churches burnt. Lovely lovely religion they really do make the rest of the world want to love them!!!
Somewhat selective there, Uber. Not showing respect is a bit different to deliberately insulting. I'm guessing the 'to insult' definition came from some kind of urban dictionary. 'He disrespec me innit'
I don't think those responsible give two hoots what anybody, Muslim or otherwise, think about them. In their minds they're right and the rest of us can burn.
Some good points raised. I still think it’s massively important that religions, political parties/ideologies, well basically anyone/thing in a place of authority or rule must be available to ridicule and accountability. With ridicule, when a group refuses to allow this freedom it can become a lot more difficult to question important issues and hold the powers that be accountable for their actions, usually a claim of offense or persecution will be the response. One particular issue with the original cartoon that doesn’t seem to be picked up on much, if at all was the content! Yes I get (don’t understand why) that Muslims do not like any depictions of Mohammed (despite his original reason, being that it might cause confusion/draw praise away from ‘Allah’ which really shouldn’t be an issue these days), but the content involved a homosexual act, which as most are fully aware is condemned in the Islamic faith, along with most others. To me the persecution of human beings for their sexuality is an absolute disgrace in this age (along with lack of equality for women) and can’t understand how basic human rights are being abused especially in democracies where faith shouldn’t be held above human rights! You are offended by a cartoon?? Guess what, I’m offended that the way in which most women are oppressed within certain communities and that if anyone were to ‘come out’ they would most likely be disowned and ostracized from their families and communities, at best. Never met a gay Muslim, strange that! PS I know this is not exclusive to Islamic beliefs and hold the same level of distain to anyone that else that oppresses people because of the way they were born, it’s just that’s where the news is here. Well done Charlie Hebdo, a fight for freedom of speech is required, shame whilst you used the pen others who opposed your view used guns!
Yep signed, ****ing mental, and what I'm on about the moment you loose and stop fighting for the right to question, criticize and in some cases ridicule this sort of **** happens to enable rule by fear in the hope that non of their subjects/believers, etc might think 'hang on, you expect us to believe what???? '. On a lighter note Islamic State are now demanding 200 million dollars from Japan for 2 hostages, oh hang on that's not a lighter note at all
Signed, naturally. Just as the Saudi 'state' introduces a new law making it an offence to damage the reputation of the country. Seems to me the Saudi state can do that itself without any help from individuals. In other news a (Christian) faith school in Durham is to be shut down for failing to educate its kids in a balanced way and fostering prejudice. Way to go, lets infect some kids with this **** before they are really able to think for themselves. ****ing faith schools, what a sick concept. Cheers Blair, yet again
I will Leave the Great Gaz Brookfield to have the last word on this A man once asked this question of me, "What do you believe?" I said "I don't believe in anything or anyone, but me" He said, "Aren't you scared of what will happen to you when you die?" I said, "I'm more afraid of never living life while I'm alive". And that man he looked me in the eye, convinced my soul was damned Unless I signed it over to a fairy tale man He said, "My boy I'll pray for you, I know you can be saved" I said, "Save your prayers for those who care, for me it is too late" I can't bare the thought of lying on my death bed with regrets Of places I've not ventured, people I have never met I want to live like every second is the last I will achieve And as long as I hurt no one then who cares what I believe? That man he talked for hours about the virtues of his faith And I could see the stony cold conviction on his face He fired every weapon in his armory of lies And some of it made sense to me, much to my surprise But I had to remind myself that he was well rehearsed At attempting to exploit fear by mis-quoting bible verse I know your game my friend, you target people when they're weak The vulnerable and disillusioned man falls at your feet If your beliefs bring comfort to your heart Then who am I to try and tear your world apart? I wish you well in your endevours and your life And I'll leave you to yours, if you leave me to mine It's not your place to impose religious law On the rest of us, like so many have before And it's equally not my place to say you're wrong I don't have to read your book, and you don't have to like this song I know my way of thinking should allow the courtesy For men like you to testify your faith to men like me But the difference that I see between belief, and having none Is a lack of faith has never waged a war with anyone I can't bare the thought of lying on my death bed with regrets Of places I've not ventured, people I have never met I want to live like every second is the last I will achieve And as long as I hurt no one then who cares what I, who cares what you, who cares what we believe? credits from Tell It To The Beer (Digital Download only), released 08 June 2012
the thread that keeps on giving what did you think of it all imac were the killings justified for the cartoon
Why not Imaz? personally can only see reasonable debate and strong opinions that have not gone over any untasteful boundaries .... so far. I'm interested to see how this pans out, recent events in Belgium suggests that authorities will not wait so long or stand by as observers with information on "future/possible" terrorists. There is no doubt in my mind that the "traditional religious power bases" are ganging up on the Islamic faith. I will also tend to agree that the Muslim marketing machine isn't really working any magic against the Media super houses. The Muslim faith will pretty much lose every time - Against fellow Religions as they consider them pond scum to be annihilated, against liberals who would normally side on minorities - due primarily to the medieval way it treats women and restricts free speech, against the Industrial super powers as where the Muslims control the countries - they are pretty ****ty and definitely at best unpredictable. Many are predicting the Armageddon of the "traditional values" and the dawn of the Islamic Age. Do any of you really think that would be allowed by the 1%? As long as there is oil, Muslim faith will be tolerated - as soon as that is over may their God be with them - I'm sure in time there will be a breakaway in the Muslim faith away from the deep, deep fundamentalists as the Jews have done from the Zions, the Christians split up in many facets and so on. It will have to, to survive. The above is opinion only - As we all know opinions are easy to find and fair proportion of said opinions are oozing ignorance and or a baseless lack of general intelligence. If the above has insulted any of you, your families or your faiths, I implore that you do not come and find me in these dangerous areas of North Copenhagen. If you must please do it over the coming 3 months as a freakish health drive is being undertaken, or at least wait until Summer where we can share beers whilst ogling the infidel Blonde beauties who are really Devils I know. And KIWI - What a ****ing stupid question - when could a cartoon ever justify taking someone's life? Come on, what are you being fed on down there? And look after the Sauvignon grape, I'm back soon!!
Well said Danish! I guess I would be considered fairly liberal in my views, but your right, I can’t accept the way in which freedom of speech is quashed, women are seen as inferior and are treated as such as well as their behaviours towards non heterosexuals, I have heard in Saudi they are taught IN SCHOOLS gays should be thrown off the tops of buildings. Whilst we are all fully aware the levels of persecution, oppression and opinion vary from person to person, but more likely from area to area, this is not considered acceptable by the majority in a modern society. To me it feels like a step back to the dark ages, yet pretty much nothing is done to stop this, be that in the Islamic states or across the Western World. If a non-Islamic person were to make their wife dress from head to toe and treat her as a second class citizen at best, they should be prosecuted for domestic abuse in the eyes of the law (in the vast majority western societies), yet this abuse seems to be accepted under the banner of religion and tradition. I really don’t know what the answers are, and I’m not saying oppression is exclusive by any means, but to know that this happens in pretty much every town or city across our nation at least, with people powerless to take any action does make me question humanity.
