Stop being an arse. The critical number we're talking about is the LUFC revenue this year. All of the deductables will take place at varying times (which none of us are party to), but nevertheless will take place, and are most certainly not LUFC revenue this year. Perhaps the one exception (and I hope this comes to pass) is the Fulham promotion payment - I hope it never happens (even though it costs us)!
Me being an arse? You were the one questioning Ristacs figures and then YOU posted inaccurate numbers... It is unarguable, money has been paid to the club and it ain't going to service debt or improve the team. Ristac makes a valid point when he asks where is the money.
I have stated quite clearly that my numbers are not 100% accurate, but, based on the transfer fee being correct, my first 2 numbers are 100% spot on - VAT is 20%, & Cardiff's payment is 15%. Applying these figures alone takes the balance way below the Ristac's balance. He uses this reported £9.5m income as a stick to beat Cellino when it is clear that at best, it's about a quarter of that income that LUFC will see this year. I have no problem with Ristac asking questions about finances, but he should not use sensationalist figures. This is not a red top newspaper.
I get tired of HAVING to repeat myself because some still believe that Cellino has pumped millions into us and is getting nothing back. I get tired of HAVING to read how we are losing money and need to do cost cutting measure when there is no proof. The transfer of footballers is subject to VAT in the same way as any other goods or services. Domestic transfers in the UK are taxable at the 20% standard rate. However, transfers between football clubs in the EU are relieved of VAT. Sales from a UK club to a buyer outside the EU are also free of VAT, although if a UK club buys a player from outside the EU it must account for VAT on the purchase. Taken from a tax questions and answers forum The rest you quote is speculation so it is as near to the £9.5m I have seen reported because we don't have any further facts. It would also be up to the buying club to add the VAT and pay it as Chippy points out the VAT is claimed back anyhow. Let's say we only receive £7.5M add to that Smith being sold and Poleon and that more than equates to the players Cellino has brought in. Again let is speculate on just a few wages saved Kenny - £20k a week Warnock £30k a week Hunt - £20k a week Ross - £20k a week Then add players like Drury, Green, Pugh, Varney, Hall, Diouf, Lees, Ashdown, Brown, Poleon, Peltier all leaving and being replaced with players on lower wages - We have EASILY saved the £1m a month we were losing. 25% of gate money loan finished, what is an average ticket price £35? We have an average of 25,000 home crowd so that is 6,250 tickets that last year would have went to repay the loan, this year they are not so an extra £200k per home game... DO YOU BELIEVE we are losing money each week? Wrong NO VAT and your figure for Cardiff share would be £1.65M Agent Fee? Would he get one as Ross asked for the move, it would be up to Cardiff to pay the agents fee NOT us
I am not engaging in this. I have simply questioned one aspect of your original post, and you choose to ignore my point & waffle on about something else. Are you really suggesting that LUFC have received £7.5m already from Fulham? Have you even read or understood my figures? Are you not aware that a huge chunk of the transfer was dependant on Fulham's promotion? Can you not get it into your head that once the VAT & Cardiff elements are deducted (firm figures, not speculation), the balance is ITRO £7.04m. That's lower than £7.5m already, before standard deductions, conditions & instalments are taken into consideration. You should be writing for a rag top. You'll exaggerate anything to get your point across, no matter how ludicrous your assertion. I'm off to my bed. Fu this for a game of soldiers.
1 Million a month is £250,000 a week.If the numbers are right that you say the big 4 saves £90,000 of that. not sure the others save £160,000 as I think we will still pay average or above.Average ticket price would be less than £35 and average home crowds is a few less than 25,000.Dont think we are losing much if any but dont think we are in profit either.
Argument lost.... Running away. You can take the man out of Scotland, but not scotland out of the man. On an Internet forum you can't decide which bits of a position you want to talk about, it's all or nothing.
It doesn't matter which search you click when looking for the answer to VAT on player sales everyone comes to the exact same answer, clubs claim the VAT back so your argument is floored from the very start as you have deducted £2.2m from the price which isn't correct. You calculated the 15% wrong and IF we haven't received the full amount up front (which I am happy to concede on) then Cardiff will have paid 15% on the LOWER figure or the amount we have received so far. YOU STATED your first two figures are SPOT ON and they are not. Agents fee's we would not pay them, the buying club pays them.
Sorry I was including the ticket sales on with the wages and I forgot to include McD's reported wage. I agree, we might not be making a penny but I don't believe we are losing one either. I haven't a gripe with Cellino where finances are concerned, I opened with I don't believe he is in it to rip us off but I do get fed up with people assuming he is still ploughing millions in to keep us afloat. I agree 100% he isn't a Bates or GFH and I don't believe he will syphon money out Just for the record £1m a month is £230,769 week Not trying to be an ass but £20k a week out is the equivalent to another Hunt
Hello all First Post so go easy!! Just wanted to point out a couple of things, that I think there are misunderstandings about, but I might be wrong All cellino has paid out for Leeds United is the purchase price (going to GFH ) and the extra £20m injection going to the club/company. All he has taken out is a salary and dividends although I'm pretty sure no dvidends will have been paid yet. All other costs and income; transfer fees, wages gate money etc goes through the club accounts and have nothing to do with Cellino except that it increases or decreases the value of his investment. The Gate money loan which is finishing has no effect on the profit/loss figures. The revenue is still accounted for in the same period as when the matches take place not when the cash was received 3/4 years ago. What it does affect is the cashflow, so going forward the club should see an improved cashflow but no effect on the reported loss figures. And Chippy this might be your 2nd stating the bloody obvious award this week but thought there was some confusion in some areas
Welcome aboard. It would be wrong to climb into someone new to the board. Awards are only given to those who regularly post things deserving of the prize. He hasn't paid more than one portion of the purchase price, GFH have written the second one off. The £20mill injection never happened, he claims gfh scuppered it. So I think you are saying Cellino isn't actually into LUFC for any meaningful cash.
Thanks Ristac, been readin the forum for a long time, but I'm a slow typer and a lazy bollix but will try post more
Wasn't sure if the £20m had happened or not yet, so yep I guess thats what I'm saying. Still in the Cellino in camp for now though. But that maybe only because I want it to be successful
Fecking Imbecile. Go do your research. 1. What could an owner invest in other than players? 2. Do you know what is and isn't allowed in terms of incoming players, instead of dribbling piss, go find out.
Apologies for being ill. Doesn't make me a loser though. Solid argument makes me a winner. Tell your mate Ristac that - he's the one avoiding the questions I'm posing. Looks like a tory politician in the making!
VAT - I'll give you that. my mistake. Cardiff's 15% - The assumption in my calculation was that all monies were paid in full. It is irrelevant to your argument if Cardiff receive less money - it means we do too - and undermines your argument that we have all this money to spend! I've revised the figures thus: Figures based on transfer fee of £11m ...........................................................Deduction.......Balance Cardiff Share @15% (of £11m)...........£1.65m..........£9.35m Agent fees (wild estimate)...................£0.35m..........£9m 'Fulham promoted' payment (33%).....£3m...............£6m 2nd insallment (33%)..........................£3m...............£3m 1st installment (33%)..........................£3m...............£3m So even revising down the figures, LUFC will receive £3m at best this year. Hardly the earth-shattering figure you imply!
