"To say your interpretation of Islam is correct is arrogance" Carrabuh, please show an ounce of intellectual honesty, I never said my interpretation was correct. Where did I say that? I said that opinions differ. They are not united You seem to think all Muslims believe the same thing. That is ignorance. And crackers.
But there are many, many more that preach apostacy is punishable by death, virtually all in fact. I reconcile it because I feel certain I am correct and I know they are wrong. It also causes great damage throughout the World and in particular where Islam is at its most powerful. We are barely affected this country. I reconcile it because getting rid of it (and all other religions) will make the World a much better place. We don't need them.
I wouldn't ever profess to be an expert, but my understanding is that the radical elements of Islam come from Wahhabism, a particularly puritanical form of Islam. Unfortunately Wahhabism is the belief system of the Saudi Royal Family, who use their immense wealth from oil exports to spread it. I've heard anecdotally that they will pay reasonable sums of money to Muslims for following Wahhabi principles, such as the strict dress code. The US (and perhaps the West at large) don't want to confront Saudi Arabia over the issue, because they are so dependent on their oil exports. Meanwhile Wahhabism is spread further and creates more issues. The sooner we can move away from fossil fuels, the better, as hopefully then the influence of the Saudi royal family will begin to diminish.
We actually aren't dependent on Saudi Arabia for oil. Most of our oil and gas is from Russia, Norway and Algeria. But basically it comes down to religion being manipulated for the minority to gain. People are people regardless or religion and for the most part they are peaceful. I understand where carrabuh is coming from (even if I don't agree with some of it). There is a difference between not liking a religion and then hating people who follow it. He is just saying they aren't necessarily bad people but they follow a religion that has bad elements. In my experience when I have visited a Muslim country the people are incredibly hospitable and mostly just normal nice people.
Exactly. And it also teaches good things, doesn't it. Which means it can't be either wholly good or wholly bad. It can only be contradictory. So my point is that we have to think what we want and the best way to achieve it. I think we can agree we want them to stop teaching the bad things (yes?) I think we can also agree that from our point of view they irrationally believe in a sky pixie and an ancient book that teaches good and bad thing (yes?) I think we can further agree that trying to teach someone that their irrationality is not rational is probably quite futile (yes?) In which case, what's the best way of getting them to believe in the good teachings? Well I'd say it stands to reason that, for the sake of achieving our aim, we just let their irrationality stay for a bit. But we can use it! They believe in a book that teChes good things as well! So why don't we (possibly covertly) encourage and support the sky pixie believers to at least be taught the good bits. Doesn't that at least give us the best chance of not being murdered? After all, if we take the extremist view that they are all just going to get taught bad bits and we should leave them to their stupid sky pixie, chances are that's just going to encourage even more murders. Divide and conquer Carrabuh. Fight one battle at a time. Let's not gift the Islamists with the entirety of the Muslim world, which is what they want us to do, by tarring them all with the same brush. Then later we can work on the sky pixie aberration, once they've accepted tolerance and peace.
I'm not really bothered about terrorists, they are just a product of Islam, they don't effect me and barely have any real effect on our country or others. I just don't want the Muslim religious culture spreading. Christianity is thankfully dying a death and I don't want it replaced by something else. I'd personally phase out funding for Faith schools.
We might not be, but the States are, and unfortunately they have a lot more influence, on both Europe and Saudi Arabia. Agree with the rest of what you've said completely though. Religions are in general peaceful, but any group will have its morons that ruin things for the rest of the group. We don't judge christianity by the Westboro Baptist Church. Religion as a whole is in decline though, Thankfully.
I'm not disagreeing with that, I'm just saying you've got to work out how to start. And you have to start with those who are the greatest hindrance to Islam and Muslims modernising - and that is the extremists (obviously, that's what keeps them in power). You're wrong to say that Islamic extremists don't affect us, though. I won't go into details but at work we have had a direct threat just this week. And incidentally, Christianity is on the rise in this country since the credit crunch. It's been on the rise in the US since the 1970s
So clearly there is a disagreement here. Rob is saying that just because some muslims believe something doesn't mean they all do. This is the point the OP is making; if a couple of muslims are responsible for a terrorist attack and we condemn the whole religion we are racist. But a couple of French journalists (who are athiest) publish some cartoons and then you have reprisal attacks on French Christians. So clearly these muslims in Niger ARE tarring all French people with the same brush. It is the rank hypocrisy which makes people angry more than anything else. It offends me that Islamic extremists do the things that they do yet all I can do is sit back and be offended. So if some muslims are pathetic enough to be offended by cartoons then I suggest they do the same thing; sit back and be offended. If they don't like the rules of our democracy (free speech!) then they go to a third world country and live under Sharia Law instead.
For those in London and many major cities in the UK, it's an occurrence each and every day. It's easy for you to say in safe, low crime parts of Norfolk. That's a decrease since 2001 - most of that decline occurred 2001-2007. I'm talking about since 2008. The Times reported a big growth in bible sales since the credit crunch. Though I broadly hope that it's just a blip and the actual trend is as shown by the census.
"A fresh analysis of the 2011 census has shown that Christian faith in the UK is declining rapidly amongst the British-born population, whilst belief in Islam has dramatically increased. A report published by the Office for National Statistics revealed that the percentage of people following a Christian faith dropped from 71.7 per cent in 2001 to 59.3 per cent in 2011. More than one in 10 under 25s in the UK now describe themselves as Muslim. Figures for Christianity were boosted however by the 1.2 million foreign-born Christians residing in the UK, such as Polish Catholics and evangelicals from countries such as Nigeria." Any boom could well be immigration although if one thing is going to turn people away from religion its money. Incidently I'm not sure Bible sales is neccesarily a means of measuring a boost in religious belief. Could be more to do with temporary desperation.
As I said, it's a drop from 2001. The question is whether there has been any drop from 2008 as well. Yes, desperation is exactly what it is. Which is why I said I hope the general trend is actually as shown by the census, rather than various articles I've seen which suggested there had been a rise.
Put it this way, does general crime have a bigger impact, the tube strikes, traffic, interest rates. Do terrorists really have an impact your life? Or is it mostly things perceived as potential threats being treated seriously.
My Mrs is Moslem and she's very peaceful except when I return home from the bar after over celebrating a City win. Could be in trouble soon. OTBC!
Islam is incompatible with secular Western Democracy,end of story really. Eventually the authorities will have to bite the bullet.We all (Myself included) howled down Enoch Powell and his Rivers of Blood. It's looking as if he was right. As a Socialist it pains me to say it. Islam is the cuckoo in our nest.
I understand what you are saing and in terms of statistics you are absolutely right. Terrorism kills relatively few compared to other things. It does however seem to have a massive psychological impact on people which is shown by the fact it rates very highly when people are asked what the biggest threats are in the world today. It scares people, maybe due to that apparent randomness of attacks.
Last time general crime had an effect on me, was when we were burgled two years ago. Terrorism had an effect this week directly on our offices, I've experienced stations being closed twice due to bomb threats. However, I actually agree with you. There are bigger issues. But just because something's a bigger issue, doesn't mean the smaller issue isn't worth considering. It's easy for you in your ivory tower to say you don't care about terrorism so that means you can preach that all Islam is bad, but from where I'm coming from I'd rather the safer, more practical method of not being at war with 1.6bn Muslims, of whom I am confident the vast majority are lovely, peaceful people. Extremism really does have a profound impact on my daily life. Yes, I choose to work in a major city so that has to be part of the risk, like crime, but doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything about it.
