Isn't the problem that, whilst no rational QPR supporter could condone the stabbing of an opposition fan, there is a substantial minority of Muslims who not only would not speak out against terrorists activities, but tacitly support them?
Either this please log in to view this image or Should do all hail the flying spaghetti monster please log in to view this image
I think you'd have to provide some evidence to back that up Strolls. It is estimated that there are between 500 (official estimate) and 2000 (from a Muslim MP) British Muslims who have gone to Islamic State. Out of a total population of 3.3 million. Obviously there will be many more that are somewhere on a spectrum between actively supporting and tolerating terrorist action, but I haven't seen any numbers on this. I'm guessing its a small minority rather than a substantial one, but that's all definitions. I had a look at the surveys/research into how many Muslims are 'radicalized' and it struck me as pretty obvious anti Muslim propaganda. For example, desire to have Sharia law is often used as a sign of radicalization. Apparently up to 40% of British Muslims want this, but Sharia Law is a very diverse thing, not just about beheadings and amputations. A lot of it is about mediation. At the same time 45% of the British favour the death penalty (reassuringly this number is falling rapidly). You can prove anything with facts. But of course, as badge designer for the Anti-theist league you will have noted the irony of expecting rationality from any believer, whether mild and peace loving or fundamentalist axe/AK47 wielding.
There are many activists and extremists in the UK but most of the native population just watch the One show
My wife does, so I hear it by default. Only last night she described the One Show as Blue Peter for semi adults. It was a relief to me to learn that she's watching in a post modern, ironic way, the same way I wear tweed jackets and flat caps.
Semantics, but could a small minority not also be a substantial one, as in ‘of significant importance’? From Wiki: In a 2007 Pew Research poll in response to a question on whether suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets to defend Islam could be justified,[27] in Europe: 64% of Muslims in France believed it could never be justified, 19% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% sometimes, and 6% thought it could be justified often. 70% of Muslims in Britain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 12% sometimes, and 3% thought it could be justified often. 83% of Muslims in Germany believed it could never be justified, 6% believed it could be justified rarely, 6% sometimes, and 1% thought it could be justified often. 69% of Muslims in Spain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 10 % sometimes, and 6% thought it could be justified often. I'd say those are substantial minorities.
You can prove anything with facts....... Surveys Show Muslims in Every Country Less Likely to Justify Killing Civilians than Americans and Israelis by Danios on August 7, 2011 in Feature, Loon Politics please log in to view this image (source for comic) I recently published an article entitled Gallup Poll: Jews and Christians Way More Likely than Muslims to Justify Killing Civilians. The poll found that Muslim-Americans (21%) were far less likely than their fellow Jewish (52%) and Christian (58%) countrymen to think it is sometimes justifiable to target and kill civilians. (For the record, these numbers were 64% in Mormons and 43% in people with no religion/atheists/agnostics.) Islamophobes didn’t like the results of this poll and quickly protested. LibertyPhile, an anti-Muslim bigot who spends his free time spreading hatred of Muslims (one wonders how empty his personal life is that he kills his spare time doing this?), whined: …The survey is of American Muslims, who are unlikely to be representative of Muslims in Muslim countries or of Muslims in Europe. LibertyPhile is among a select group of Islamophobes who have compiled various poll results which portray Muslims in a negative light. The operative logic is usually as follows: x% of Muslims believe it is sometimes justifiable to target and kill civilians, and x% is a lot! I agree that x% is a lot. Even the 21% of Muslim-Americans who think it is sometimes justifiable to target and kill civilians is unacceptably high. Yet, the point that Islamophobes intentionally fail to mention is that this number is less–far less in this case–than the general public (including Jews and Christians). So while it’s absolutely atrocious that 21% of Muslim-Americans would think so, more than twice that percentage of Jewish- and Christian-Americans think so! This fact “steals their (the Islamophobes’) thunder,” so to speak. With regard to LibertyPhile’s comment, the data we have from Muslim and European countries confirms that Muslims in general are less likely to justify the killing of civilians as compared to Jews and Christians in America. Interestingly enough, LibertyPhile himself links to a site that references a poll that proves this! LibertyPhile links to a website citing the Populus for Policy Exchange, a British study that found that between 7-16% of British Muslims think that it is sometimes justifiable to target and kill civilians. This means that Jewish- and Christian Americans are more than three times as likely to justify targeting and killing civilians than British Muslims. LibertyPhile cites Pew Research Center. Yet, Pew found the same results for French-Muslims: once again, only 16% of Muslims in France believe it is sometimes justifiable to target and kill civilians. Pew notes that this is the case for the Muslims in all the European countries they polled; says Pew (emphasis added): Like Muslims elsewhere in Europe only a tiny minority of French Muslims (16%) say that suicide bombings and other violence against civilian targets in defense of Islam can often or sometimes be justified. Indeed, for Muslims in Germany that number is only 17% (according to a Pew poll), far less than the whopping 52% and 58% among American Jews and Christians, respectively. According to the same poll, the percentage of Muslims in Spain is significantly higher, at 31%–which is still almost half of what it is for Christians in the United States. The conclusion we draw from this is that Muslims in Western countries (such as United States, the U.K., France, Germany, and Spain) are far less likely than Jews and Christians in America to justify the targeting and killing of civilians. This is quite the opposite of the picture that Islamophobes such as LibertyPhile paint. What about Muslims in the Muslim-majority world? Do they support the targeting and killing of civilians? Robert Spencer’s JihadWatch published an article from CNS News, formerly called the Conservative News Service, which cited a Pew poll to prove that a sizable portion of the population did indeed support this. Yet, even this source shows that support for the targeting and killing of civilians among Muslims in the Muslim world is still lower than what it is among Jews and Christians here in the United States. The article cited by Spencer reads: In the Pew Global Attitudes Project poll released on Thursday, 68 percent of Palestinian Muslim respondents said suicide bombings against civilians were justifiable “to defend Islam from its enemies.” That view was shared by 43 percent of respondents in Nigeria and 38 percent in Lebanon, where 51 percent of Shi’ites held the view compared to 25 percent of Sunnis. Elsewhere, the proportion of Muslim respondents supporting suicide bombings against civilians was 15 percent in Egypt, 13 percent in Indonesia, 12 percent in Jordan, seven percent in Israel (Muslim Arab citizens), five percent in Pakistan and four percent in Turkey. The Palestinians are split in between those inside of Israeli proper (1.5 million) and those in the Israeli Occupied Territories (4 million). Using simple math (1.5×0.07+4×0.68)/(1.5+4)=0.51, we find that 51% of Palestinians overall think its sometimes justified to target and kill civilians. On the the other hand, according to a Gallup poll 52% of Israelis think it is OK to target and kill civilians. What we have then is: Percentage of people who said it is sometimes justifiable to target and kill civilians: Mormon-Americans 64% Christian-Americans 58% Jewish-Americans 52%Israeli Jews 52% Palestinians* 51% No religion/Atheists/Agnostics (U.S.A.) 43% Nigerians* 43% Lebanese* 38% Spanish Muslims 31% Muslim-Americans 21% German Muslims 17% French Muslims 16% British Muslims 16% Egyptians* 15% Indonesians* 13% Jordanians* 12% Pakistanis* 5% Turks* 4% *refers to Muslims only Therefore, Muslims in every country are less likely than U.S. Jews and Christians (and Israeli Jews) to believe that it is sometimes justified to target and kill civilians. * * * * * Not disagreeing with you Stroller, I'm just having an existential crisis over the reliability and use of survey results
Very good Stan, but, to go back to your earlier analogy, what percentage of QPR fans would think it justifiable to stab an Everton fan? The article is comparing the opinions of various Muslim groups to those of US citizens. One would hope that similar comparisons to the opinions of non-Muslims in the UK would show different results. Or maybe they wouldn't?
Couldn't find any British statistics, sadly. And I didn't mean to cut and paste the whole article, just the table! Plus I'm on a conference call and can't multi task......
I don't expect any Muslim, Jew, Christian etc to take "responsibility" for the actions of other people who belong to their religion. I just feel it would help the overall situation if moderates came out and said that they disagreed with the actions of extremists. This isn't the same as sharing responsibility with them.
Please explain? What is this "same god"? G_d of the jews, God of the Christians or Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala of the Muslims?
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...Pj917_6M7b7clCxnQ&sig2=_-4Jd-ErQFgUl72eJwwwaA http://aje.io/8fhb https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...3-3bxvN8pBcd0BXAg&sig2=qM9u_61iB5Z3wK1g57b3pg
Also the sect of the Muslims being questioned is important as the majority of the Jihadists are Sunni.
If this thread loses it's semblance of dignity lads it will have to go. I really don't want to spend my weekend issuing warnings and bans. It's bad enough that I've got to go and watch the Rangers. Keep it decent please. Cheers in advance.
Welcome back Imaz. I'll give it a couple of hours until the thread is closed. By the way, I posted to show the unreliability of survey results/ their interpretation, not to demonstrate how peace loving Muslims are. Sadly Muslim extremist actions represent the most likely non-accidental or health related threat to my life at the moment. It's a pretty small risk, but still much bigger than a white supremacist bombing or a resurgence of the Baader- Meinhof Gang.
