Sakho is our best centre back and has been since he arrived. Now he's found real form and confidence. Can is our second best centre back - Skrtrl and Lovren are a couple of frauds who both should go, and we invest the proceeds in a quality RCB to partner Sakho.
I've never felt that Skrtel was or would ever be world class but I think it's unfair to put him in the same boat as Lovren. With mopre games together I feel that Skrtel and Sakho would compliment each other well as a partnership
Skrtel is an average defender. He is certainly capable of not being as calamitous as Lovren but still average nonetheless. The fact he has been at the club for so long, along with Johnson, Enrique, Lucas and have been fixtures in this team during the worst periods of the clubs history Is no coincidence.
eh? skertl is at fault for all of roy hoadgson and rafa and kennys woes then? sorry but while i find his arm waving and abdication of responsibility annoying he isn't that bad... Lovern also isn't that bad... if you build the side right. I am sure he is quite eager to get in and get the job done. lovern might prove a few wrong yet.
Can't remember where it was, but there was another Lucas bashing not so long ago (and here too) about us needing to ship him out because he's crap, negative, passes backwards/sidewards and whatever else. Sunderland performances, all touches. Quite a mix of forward and sideward passes but you can see that every time he gets it, he's looking up for options and only then does he resort to going along the line instead - infact, it shows Henderson up more than anyone else for knocking it backwards without even looking up. I know it's only one game, but it's the only one I found and he barely gives the ball away, often looks forward with passes, cleans up the ball and often in the right spot for loose balls. It seems popular recently to herald Carrick because of simple performances...why not Lucas? What was the stat, 1 loss in 13? Guess which player was missing for that 1 game we lost but played in the other 12... Skrtel's staying until the other dross is gone first too.
In all that, I think he only gives the ball away once when in possession. Obviously gave possession away a few times doing his DM role making tackles or winning headers and the balls gone loose or out of play.
Same, I wasn't moaning, just pointing out the difference between giving away possession and defending
Lucas stands out because he is the only DM in the team! We are comparing to the last person in his role - i.e. Steven Gerrard. Of course he's going to look good. That's not to say that he's done a bad job - but it highlights the need for ANY DM to be in that role. Any DM > No DM. It's just amazing how we had the likes of Alonso and Mascherano and now fans think the likes of Lucas and Henderson are on par with them. The gulf in ability is huge. And Skrtel is rubbish - he will suit a team who defends deep, has good fullbacks and a commanding partner. Unfortunately for him, his partner will be Sakho who is younger therefore Skrtel will have to lead (but he can't) and we don't play a deep line. He cannot build from the back, his marking and intelligence is poor, he is selfish because he only covers himself, constantly drops deep, gets easily bullied.
Let's rewind back..... For all here, name the last time you could honestly say, yeah we had a solid defense. Probably what pops up for the last one was with any combination of GK: Dudek, Reina and Def: Riise, Aurelio, Hyypia, Carra, Henchoz, Arbeloa, Finnan at least that ring for me. Why did these players work well? For me it was a clear understanding between the GK and backs, communication at all time high with Carra, and you had the balance of defenders, The tower that was Hyypia, Voice of Carra, and for the backs you had reliability, especially in regards to defending. The other thing and reading Bellamy's, Gerrards, and Rafa's books talk a lot of about the preparation, a lot of it, in the defensive side of things. Why we may have struggled a bit in the league ( which we would all take now) but were awesome in Europe. We were hard to break down. Our style is certainly attractive now and if you think of the pieces we have, we almost have a complete set in the back, but we need someone to come in to organize it all and to give guidance, leadership, and coaching to this. Old saying, surround yourself with those who are smarter than you, rings true and this is what it is for me. It wouldn't happen, but imagine Rafa as the number 2? Rodgers attacking prowess with Rafa's sense of defensive shape and preparation?
I firmly believe that if tony pulis took over at anfield within 2 weeks we'd be hard to score against. Rodgers would have to give less time to joking and laughing and more time to actually preparing the team. but........... in the end you'll not make a silk purse out of a sow's ear will you? Need a keeper who does the fundamentals very well.... those are dominating his box, shot stopping and catching. distribution is another matter...
Don't and wont agree. DM is not required... REAL midfielders like fabregas and matic show the way.. Matic is not mikel (who comes in when mourinho wants to destroy a game) Matic is a dynamic force who is all over the park.... perhaps this is why chelsea are not so hot at the back. If you've a real midfielder he should say goal side until that late surging run, he should always be in position, available and also able to do something with the ball. Alonso was all of these things... this is why he went from us to real madrid and was vital and why he is now in bayern... two giant clubs.... real madrid now have modric and kroos and khederia is half the time not getting in. The thing about gerrard is he ball watches and won't track running and then can't chase guys. Lucas does track guys but he's terrible in the opposition half. Ideally LFc would replace the pair.... Can is a yuong kid who is more than a DM it seems but he is young. LFC needed more than that this season but rodgers f'd it. Henderson isn't great in the opposition half but he tracks runs, closes, hassles, is busy and when in his own half a good passer too. In the opposition half he's not the best technically... put a partner with henderson who's a really just plain good CM and we will improve. Put a destroyer there and we will not really.
Matic is a DM. He is first and foremost a shield for the defence. What he can do with the ball is an added bonus and it's what puts him in an elite group of players. But ultimately, his first, second and third job is to defend. DM's can be categorized in different ways - shield, destroyer etc etc. We need a dedicated DM for the role - someone who protects the defence. Then the 1 or 2 midfielders ahead of him should be the all action type i.e. Vidal, Pogba. I agree that we need better midfielders who are strong in most aspects - Henderson, Allen, Lucas simply aren't good enough at this level. Imagine a quality DM with the likes of Can and (hopefully) Lars Bender in front him. Now that is a midfield I would love to see. It's an interesting debate really - the midfield we had under Rafa with the likes of Sissoko, Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard was awesome and it's what allowed us to control and dominate so many games.
He would but then again, he would set 2 banks of 4 and compromise our attack. I do agree that better coaching and a better structure would help our current defenders but I still firmly believe that the personnel are the first to blame. It's no coincidence that once we took our Lovren and Johnson, replaced them with Can and Sakho - our defence has made less defensive errors. All we need to do now is upgrade Lucas, Skrtel and Migs - I'm so confident of it. Disregarding all the stuff I said about Skrtel in my previous post, we've seen the effects of having actual ball playing defenders in the defence (Sakho and Can). Since these two have come in, we've looked so much more confident building from the back. Yet, some still think Skrtel and Lovren are good on the ball - if they prefer pointless sideways passing to the full backs, to one another and back to the keeper then yeah, these two look very good. But hopefully everyone now can see what 'being comfortable' on the ball is really about.
but surely the whole package in unacheivable without really top players. if we had reina, carra and hyppia I am not sure we'd be any better! Why? 1. rafa's zonal defence in their day causes set piece accusations too. 2. neither cb was quick so they can only do what they can do. 3. Reina would keep the line high and carra would talk but if we want to acck like rodgers want then they have to be exposed. i beleive its more about buying time than anything... our current lot are not good at that and the whole team must sprint back not do a gerrard and jog. I don't like skertl beacuse he does a few things i don't like, not beacuse he can't do the job... Skertl plays well going and attacking the ball with others in behind. What he does badly in my view is he likes to commit too early and he loves to just wave a magic hand at his partner to absolve any responsibility for marking his own man... skertl seems to think covering someone else in case he gets beat is better than marking his man. I hate it. I don't linke mingolet cos he's poor... he's an 80s keeper at best but under a high ball he's more of a puss than any keeper i've seen in the prem.
but he's not though... he's all over the field... he's a beast and absolutely brilliant. I simply do not beleive in DMs who sit there and shuffle the ball sideways any more than i beleive in CBs doing the same. If you want someone to hold thier position fine that one tactical decision... if you want a clogger thats a totally different one. I'd never want a mikel in my team but would want a matic.... Pogba is actually what i mean... and hell partick vieria is too... but alonso is the ultimate. I'd rather tell a player to sit but know he's got quality to find a pass forward (not 40 yards) than a for example scott parker who's a snide little hacker who can only pass it left or right to cbs or full backs. The thing is if you look round europe how many top top "DMs" are there. Peoepl keep saying makelele for the example of the ultimate one but thats 10 years back.. I think football has moved on from that sort of game. You have to get around and contribute.... its really the same debate thats had on balotelli. that type of forward is all well and good for some level but these days the mobile, player getting around the whole pitch is where the very best are at. Balotelli will never be a top player cos he won't move himself. DMs are now really required to be far more than a sit and destroy.
You're right - we need better players. We need defenders who are actually good and confident on the ball - Skrtel simply isn't good enough, on a decent wage and is 30. He should have no future at this club. Sakho is a very good defender who will get better - instead of spunking £20m on Lovren, we should have signed a partner for Sakho, not trying to replace him. Skrtel annoys because his mistakes are not as visible or as calamitous as say a Kolo or Sakho (who may misplace a pass) so they don't get picked up. Skrtel's errors can be difficult to pick up - i.e. positioning errors, absolving responsibility, concentration. These errors are far more detrimental to the team than a misplaced pass. For example, the goal we conceded against Swansea when Sakho manages to win a header against Bony, only for no-one to pick up the scorer. I read from a few fans (not on this site) how Sakho should have done better lol. But it was down to Skrtel simply switching off. In summary - i do agree. Better players are needed.
Pogba is a central midfielder, box to box. Completely different to Matic. Matic playing in that position allows those in front of him to attack while he sweeps up. If play develops, then yes he can join the attack. But that is still not his responsibility. Players like Pogba are the ones who should play ahead of the DM. And Alonso is good defensively, but would not trust him to protect your defence. He would need to strong , powerful runners ahead or a Mascherano next to him. Quality DM's in the world - Busquets, Vidal (plays as a CM now but he was immense when he was a DM, William Carvalho is a very good talent, Diego Reyes at Porto, Fernando, Matic, Javi Martinez, the Bender brothers are quality. There are quality DM's out there - I'm just not sure Rodgers really thinks we need one.
Personally, I think the defence will improve quite a bit if we signed better players. But that will only take us so far - as we have seen by putting Can and Sakho into the team, along with a proper DM. The improvement has come about as a result of personnel changes which were FORCED - not because he genuinely thought Sakho was a good defender, or through his own good coaching. Rodgers simply does not coach the defence - it's proven throughout his career that defences regress under his management. For us to be an elite again, we need a solid team which can defend as a unit - I simply do not see this with Rodgers
yet can got badly caught out positionally even v wimbledon so it take works to get it right. I would agree with what i bolded above. I think he is naive i nthe extreme at times and teams lack patience. I can think back to season one where swansea won 3-1 in the league cup.. then chelsea 0-2 last year. the team got so anxious it crept forward and forward and joe allen in the elague cup example chased under a clearance from a corner got under it and beaten to it and it lead to goal 3. If he'd tactically backed off and dealt with the ball properly no goal naivity is the watch word... again gerrard, not minding the guy closing down takes eyes off back in crucial game at 0-0 lets it under his foot in the 46th minute... FFS you smash it in the bloody stand mate. roll on to 3-0 madird... first goal... you can do nothing... then coutinho rather than clearing it tried to chip it over a guys ehad on his own pen area and loses it... 2-0 game over.... I cannot see rodgers getting this out of his teams at all. I think even if he knew what the right thing was he would rely on senior players to take responsibility for it happening. I do not think the phrase they can't score from row z is on the wall in the dressing room somehow. Unfortunately some people refuse to differenciate between carragher aimlessly lofting a ball 40 yards towards a torres rather than playing it into the midfield and carragher lumping it into row z to clear it.
