Watching Sunderland is a bit like opening your Christmas presents. You never know what you're gonna get. What you do know is you'll get a lot of ****e. You'll get some things that make you think, Oh aye, that's canny that, quite like it. And then occasionally you'll get a remarkable surprise that you just weren't expecting.
My son just read your post and said, "I'm not 100% sure what the point is but, whatever it is I'm 100% sure Relic has missed it." Let's put it this way. Ellis Short has decided that SAFC would better prosper in London as the 'Capital Black Cats', built a stadium and took every single employee with him, including the playing staff & manager, As you say he 'owns' the club so he could do it ....... would the supporters allow the club in Sunderland to die or would it rise again purely by the will of the supporters? As I said 'we are the club'. Comparing over 100 years of history & tradition to a bunch of middle aged pop singers shows just how apt was the comment by my son. You don't support the team or club, you just pay for entertainment. By your logic could just as easily watch Newcastle next week in the same way you could switch from Take That to One Direction.
You are out of tune with the emotions and commitment of football fans throughout the world never mind in this area. MrRaw and Smug are completely right and reflect the views of the vast majority of football supporters in this debate. Supporters are the 12th man on the pitch and will create an atmosphere to encourage players to perform; I have seen it countless times when the players’ performances improve commensurate with the intensity of the crowd. Your argument of who should instigate the atmosphere, players or crowd, is not relevant when you consider that the supporters should want a performance more than the players, so they should do everything in their power to facilitate that performance. I am a season card holder in the east stand, I am not a ‘singer’, I go to the games to watch and get involved in the game, I cheer, encourage and attempt to drive on the team as loud as any individual singer and have never booed a Sunderland player in my life and even with the performances of late, I still clap the players off at the end of the game. The hairs on the back of my neck, to this day, stand up when the team runs out, or the south stand are in full song, but I hate the early leavers, the damage they do to the atmosphere in the ground and not least my view of the game. I get down and moody when we struggle and I feel the elation of a good performance. I bet, since 1961, I have invested proportionately more of my hard earned income in SAFC than Mr Short, Niall Quinn, Bob Murray or Tom Cowie, so I and most other Sunderland supporters have an inherent right to feel part of the club. The psychologists call it tribalism; I prefer to view it as part of my extended family but however anyone views it, football supporters are more than customers, they are part of their club.
Short term rubbish. You're very fond of talking '100 years of history', tradition, and heritage, so ok let's do that. Your ancestors abandoned the creator of 'their' club, James Allen. Indeed, they stoned him! Your family chose to prefer the rich man's toy called Sunderland AFC whose success was bought by shipyard and mine owners. So if you insist on talking all the pomp of tradition, then everyone with a red and white scarf on (including me) is a two-faced turncoat! James Allen and 'your club' meant no more than a middle aged pop singer when your family was lured by the Abramovich of their time. The prawn sandwich brigade of the 1890s - that's your family heritage and tradition mate - so don't shout it too loudly, will you?
Its not that simple tho' is it, we are Sunderland born and bred, the owners, staff and players are for the most part not. Football is about supporting your club as it represents your region and its history, but most of all its people. I will never forget going to Roker Park and hearing the "Roker Roar" , no concert I have ever been too and I've been to one or two could ever compare.
No, it's historical, not hysterical. Enjoy Swansea mate. We don't all have to see it the same way to all want the same result.
Seems straightforward enough to me. Why would you want Sunderland to win at Swansea if you won't be there? Why would you want Take That to perform brilliantly at a concert you don't attend? By your logic, there's no difference ........... after all it's not your team is it?
Who wanted desperately to be loved, but was such a character that he put on a façade of not giving a hoot.
Very good points there, mate. Unfortunately, very complex ones as well. Yes, the club represents the region, its history and its people. But that's an easy thing to say in Sunderland because we've had a choice of one since 1891. But who represents the people of Liverpool - the reds or the blues? In Sheffield, is it the blades or the owls? It wouldn't be quite so easy to come on here and claim 'It's in my blood' if there was still a Sunderland Albion as well as a Sunderland. Families become divided, and the whole thing becomes watered down. Football is tribal - but what happens when the tribe is divided by two representatives? I don't have any answers to these questions, but you've certainly raised some good'uns.
It doesn't have to be 'my team' and I don't have to flatter myself that 'I am the club' to like them and to care whether they win or not. I'm a fan, and that's all. I'm nothing more important than that.
So your saying Sunderland isn't actually 'your' team. Strange then, that you were so keen to be a Sunderland moderator ..... smacks of self-validating bullshit to me
I really can't follow the reasoning behind some of the arguments on this thread. No-one here has to support Sunderland. It's something we want to do and, whilst acknowledging that it's not always a barrel of laughs, something that gives us pleasure, on the whole. On that basis, why would we not be passionate about the club? I have a huge amount of emotional capital invested in SAFC, which has accumulated over 45 years or so. Not because I'm some sort of hero wanting a medal, but because I started when I was a kid. If I wanted success for my team, I would have supported Liverpool. Growing up in Chester in the 70s there were millions of reds fans all over the place, but for me that wasn't the point. I come from the NE and my dad supported Sunderland. That was enough to make SAFC my team and that's the way it's bloody staying.
I don't seek reward for my support let alone a medal, my support is my reward. Anyone who sees themselves as no more than a paying customer has my sympathy, it's such an empty arrangement.
It doesn't no, but I tell you what it fella. Most things in life you can fit it into a spectrum. Your detachment is scary. I feel sorry for you in a way. We've got two sides at very much the opposite ends of the spectrum. Someone in the middle could argue both sides are wasting their money. But one side is led by passion and faith, your side seems completely disillusioned not only with the club, but the game. I understand this at the way the game is changing lots of people are falling out with the game. Honest question and I hope you respond, what with you choosing not to respond to my last time I tried to chat with you. But dude, what the hell are you doing putting your hand in your pocket for this club? You clearly don't care. Do you not have kids you can help in funding their education or something? I mean something worth spending your money on? You seem to think it's about people claiming to be better fans but you couldn't be further from the truth. It ain't a bigger dick competition. It's simply a matter of people with a very strong faith struggling to understand someone who follows the same cause without any passion or faith what so ever. The fact you think it is about people claiming to be better fans shows you have a very sad out look on life and people. Just seems you're beyond a lack of faith in the football club, it's like you have a lack of faith in humanity. Come on fella, what moves you? @Indestructible , you definitely think it's a bigger dick competition. Do you think I try to out do the people around me at the match? You think I'm trying be louder? Trying to start more songs? I don't, I join them and we're all together. If it was about self vindication why would be even bother with passionless people like yourself. I'd want a challenge. If it was about self vindication you would be so far beneath me(I don't think you're beneath me at all, I'm just implying the stance that you're labeling me with) why would I bother to even address you? I wouldn't. There'd be much bigger fish to fry then you. There'd be 1000s of fans i'd be looking to out do who have more faith in their toenails then you have on your entire body. If it was about self vindication what the **** makes you and Relic so ****ing special that we'd waste our time on you? Think about it. Indy, you're clutching big time thinking it's about self validation. You're wrong 100%. If it was I'd just leave a single sentence telling everyone who doesn't feel the same as passionless bullshit. Fact is you think it's self vindicating yet think you're so special that we would waste such levels of superiority on yourself reeks of self vindication on your own part.
It's absolutely no surprise that these arguments always appear after defeats. No one was saying these things in Wembley week or after the 4 in a row .......... choosing the right time is obviously important.
