How did you know that I am Keyser Soze? It may suprise you to know that I don't have any problem with his basic point, that rushing to conformity is not a good thing. I think his comparison to the mass hysteria around Diana's death is a bit laboured though. He's right that the attacks on Farage were out of proportion, his points were honestly made I think and relevant to the events of last week.* Multiculturalism v 'integration' (for which 'assimilation' would be a more accurate description) is much more complicated than a binary argument though, both leave plenty of opportunity for 'alienated' extremism to develop. I don't, as usual, have an answer. He needs to get his facts right on Pegida though. Their demonstrations have been largely in parts of Germany where there are very small populations of immigrants, let alone Muslims. Their numbers have been dwarfed by counter protests in the major urban centres, especially Berlin. Not many of the 'elite' on those counter demos. Strongly disagree that 'perjury is as bad a crime as rape'. It strikes me that those who falsely accuse someone of rape should be prosecuted for wasting police time, rather than requiring the alleged victim as well as the accused to be named in these cases. There are still, and will always be, many times more women who are raped than those making false accusations, and anything that discourages victims from seeking justice is a bad idea. Hitchens is a bright bloke, but like all converts from one set of inflexible ideas to the opposing set, he has the gleam of the fanatic in his (virtual) eyes. Of course it's his job to live up to his reputation and reinforce the prejudices of the loonier end of the Mail's readership. He does it very well. * For clarity, my basic position on Farage is that he is a shameless populist, peddling dangerous over simplistic ideas/ solutions which will make everything much much worse if ever implemented. He is easy to dismiss as a buffoon (albeit a skilled debater) with a party stuffed full of scared social inadequates, but I think it's important to try to understand where they are coming from, in order to challenge. I'm still unsure as to whether he actually believes what's coming out of his mouth, or has just scammed a living from the public purse which allows him to do stupid things like turn his back in the European Parliament and have some people think he's clever for it.
This thread seems to have gone a bit political now. Just seen the footage of what they did to the terrorist in the supermarket. maybe the news should show these terrorists what actually happens to them. He literally ran out into the police and about 20 armed police shot him. He went down and they continued firing into his head and body. They must have shot him 60-70 times. Anyway my final comment on this is that i can see this happening here at some point. These freaks don't mind dying for their sick beliefs. I only hope if it ever does happen that our police don't waste time trying to bring them in alive. I also have a feeling that the authorities won't take any cr@p, or they don't.
I didn't hear any screeching. Farage was entitled to make his remarks, but maybe he should have waited a day or two before exploiting the tragedy for his own ends. I don't get this............. 'decades of multicultural refusal to integrate them into our laws and customs' There is certainly a problem with assimilation, but the law is the law, is he suggesting that certain immigrants have been permitted to operate outside it? Is he suggesting that it should be compulsory to conform to a certain set of customs? Who will define what they are?
An interesting view and agrees with some of the ideas I stated earlier (I think). I can also see the mass hysteria point of view and have noticed many people without much interest or opinion leaping on the mass view as if it's compulsory. I'm not sure that I would draw in immigration into the debate and don't see it's relevance at all unless the best solution is a cold-war style global divide with isolated West and Islamic divides (and in that instance, neither side would be able to readily accept the existence of the other anyway).
Interesting article - but really disagree with one aspect. Maybe other journalists don;t print cartoons that are offensive to some - not out of fear - but because they don't want to be offensive. We have to right to print anything without censure and I defend that right. We can be racist, sexist etc. But we choose not to be sometimes because we also have the right to resist being sexist racist or inflamatory.
Interesting read. It's the rights v responsibilities argument. Lots of people want the right to do this or that but rarely do they want the responsibility of exercising those right with care.
Politics aside, I write this post as helicopters fly over head, and thousands on thousands of people march silently around my area, with banners and posters declaring 'je suis Charlie' (I am Charlie). The people of Paris are not going to take this lying down, they will protest until such actions are quashed. It is in their DNA to stand up to what is wrong, at the very heart of the french constitution, freedom, equality, brotherhood. What happened last week abused that freedom, robbed people of their lives, and was the opposite of brotherhood. Very moving seeing how they have stood up in their thousands against what happened.
Bravo the French. Lots of solidarity being shown over here, London , Birmingham and elsewhere. I wandered into Leamington today with my daughter wearing her home made 'Je suis Charlie' badge and she got a lot of thumbs up as she started her shift in Oxfam.
[QUOTE="ELLERS, post: 7482890, member: 1013terrorist thread seems to have gone a bit political now. Just seen the footage of what they did to the terrorist in the supermarket. maybe the news should show these terrorists what actually happens to them. He literally ran out into the police and about 20 armed police shot him. He went down and they continued firing into his head and body. They must have shot him 60-70 times. Anyway my final comment on this is that i can see this happening here at some point. These freaks don't mind dying for their sick beliefs. I only hope if it ever does happen that our police don't waste time trying to bring them in alive. I also have a feeling that the authorities won't take any cr@p, or they don't.[/QUOTE] You seem to have a problem with shooting a terrorist 60 or 70 times. I most certainly don't. Please do tell us why? Is it not politically correct enough for you?
Don't think he has a problem shooting terrorist 60 odd times mate. I read it as if he didn't have a problem with it
We certainly live in interesting times, don't we? On the one hand we stridently defend the right to free speech and freedom of expression, but on the other we either prosecute, vilify and condemn those whose exercise of those very rights offend us. I suspect the modern liberal will fight to his last for your right to agree with him, but woe betide if your opinions are contrary.
Example? I think you are right, but it hasn't got much to do with (social) liberals. I think Queens may be busy perfecting his warlpiri, or perhaps another aboriginal dialect.
That's why I responded to COL's sentence above in the way I did. Its all well and good saying you are against killers off all persuasions until it comes to your own people doing the killing. COL of all people saying to you that you have a "black and white view of the World" nearly knocked me clean off my chair!
this and what sooperhoop said The news should show the graphic images of these terrorists dying to show people exactly what happens to them in the end. However i think dying doesn't seem to worry them.
I'll probably get heated disagreement but I wouldn't have wanted them to be shot in the way they were. I DEFINITELY want/wanted them brought to justice. Those terrorists died, in their minds, thinking they were right. I'd prefer a lifetime of inglorious imprisonment where at some stage they realise they're wrong. Perhaps even admitting so publicly. Not very likely given the conviction of their beliefs but at least a very rremote possibility. Their is also information they could provide to try to avoid similar disasters in the future. Am I right in thinking there is one terrorist arrested? That is my hope for him. Like I say, sorry if my opinion offends.
