Amidst the news that Gerrard is to leave Liverpool and join LA Galaxy I noticed the following quote from Ruud Guillit: "Meanwhile, former LA Galaxy manager Ruud Gullit said Gerrard, who decided against a move to Chelsea in 2005, should have left Anfield earlier in his career to win more trophies. "Everybody knows that he loves Liverpool," Gullit told BBC Sport. "But if you look at his whole career, he would have wanted to have more on it. "For me, he should have done it before, not because I don't like Liverpool, but as a player you need to have different experiences. "To become really one of the biggest players England has ever had, you need to have trophies and he wanted to have them." It is to be expected that Guillit would think along these lines as his own career was defined by the moves he made but in my view the measure of greatness is not about numbers of trophies. Counting cups is very much the tick box mentality that predominates in all walks of life today IMO and staying at one club should be be applauded not derided. A great player has to be defined by his performances on the field and NOT by the number of trophies, there are after all any number of players who we cannot remember who have many more trophies than say Glenn Hoddle but it does not follow that they are better players. How would you define a great player?
A great player is a game changer for me or someone who can consistently perform to a very high level. They could go all their career without a trophy yet I wouldn't allow that to cloud my judgement. Pre-Madrid, Modric and Bale were superb and amongst some of the best on the continent already and are now proving that with Madrid. Ledley was the greatest defender I've watched live and yet only had a Carling Cup trophy to his name. Matt Le Tissier was a great player and didn't win a single thing if I'm not mistaken. But Guillit speaking of Gerrard and trophies is a bit weird, considering Gerrard has won pretty much every trophy bar the Premier League. Champions League, UEFA Cup, League Cup, FA Cup are all on his list.
Yeah, I'd agree with SoS. A great player is essentially one who can, and does change the course of a game, or affect the outcome of a game, single handed. Not just once, but on a fairly regular basis. Great is an overused word, IMO. For me, greats are players such as Messi, Maradona, Pele, Ronaldo, Cruyff, etc.
Game changer is a good definition and a good start towards greatness however I agree NSIS it is an overused term in this age of hype.
Great players -perform consistently well at the top level under the greatest pressure -change the course of a games regularly through their own performances -have done each of the above over a substantial period of time -have the ability to raise the performances of their teammates by their leadership or example
So given your definitions we probably have quite a lot of these 'game changers' in the game today, possibly more than at any other time in the history of the game. We would probably all agree on Messi and Roanldo but are there any others playing at the moment who could be bracketed with Maradona, Pele, Cryuff, Eusabio, Charles, Mathews, Puskas as true greats of the game?
By those definitions Kane is a great player at the moment, as was Townsend for a time last season for example. To apply that term to a player permanently can only be done in hindsight. 'Great' is an overused term now though, as is 'World Class'. There is definitely far more to either term than trophies won.
By hindsight I take it you DON'T mean after their careers have finished because I think we can already see that Messi and Ronaldo fit the bill, so what do you mean by hindsight?
I think it's hard to bracket the players of today with those of yesterday in an easy manner. The advancement in training and coaching today would probably mean that many players of today's generation that are nowhere near the level of some of the top stars would've looked like world beaters in the previous era. Messi and Ronaldo are without a doubt in a league of their own and more than earn their spot alongside the old greats. I'd say the likes of Zlatan, Aguero, Robben, Buffon, Lampard, Gerrard, Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo and maybe one or two others I may have missed would make that list. Then there's the likes of Bale, Suarez, Pogba, Hazard and co who could have arguments made for them as well, dispute not achieving as much as the others (yet?), these are players with exceptional skill and talent.
You can only make comparisons between players and their peers. It doesn't work comparing different generations. It's like cars. The E-Type was a phenomenal performance car in 1961 - far superior to the rest in its day, but it would be given the runaround by many hot hatches nowadays. Tom Finney was a great player from the 30s to the 50s, but would look comical trying to dribble past modern day athletes.
Exceptional yes but not I think greats in that sense. Players like Pele, Maradona & Cruyff would still IMO be greats if playing today because their natural talent would have been honed by modern training methods. Cruyff smoked 30 ***s a day imagine a fit Cruyff LOL. Your list is not IMO exclusive enough which is why I would only at this stage mention only Messi or Ronaldo in the same breath as the former greats. The game in the past was played often on very poor surfaces with a ball that got heavier as it got wetter with rules that allowed many tackles that are outlawed today. In many ways you could argue that a higher lever of skill was needed but I agree it is difficult to compare eras. I think you can say, however that talent will always show whatever the period conditions and rules and on that basis it is possible to compare.
It's not like cars Luke because we are talking about a steady progression of technology. The human being has not been remodeled just honed a little. An E type with wider wheels perhaps but not a 911.
I think it has to be something to do with long-term consistency of high level skill that changes games. If I imagine picking a squad of 25 players every four years year to represent the earth in the Galactic Cup then the truly great players are going to feature in two or three of these squads. So Messi and Ronaldo are already there but Aguero and Bale are not.
