Good to hear your view on the players H. Makes a lot of sense - we did seem to have got a few "moaners" and if you are right the future is ... golden
This has been a good thread, apart from the intemperate parts of my contributions! It looks like we all converge on the good state the club is in, are variously dubious (me not at all!) about the likelihood of success with the 'model' and current head coach, and possibly a bit anxious about the likely outcome of getting promoted. Seeing what happens to other clubs, I think the anxiety is justified. And it is accepted that the Pozzos are absolutely focused on the Prem. rightly or wrongly, from the consequences for a 'small' club who wouldn't be, given the costs of being in our division, with upward aspirations. I'd like to propose that if we get up, we'll do a great deal better than peeps expect. Possibly I should delay the thought until after tomorrow, but here goes. Anyone who saw us at the etihad last year would see that we actually outplayed Man city for 50 minutes. It wasn't backs to the wall at all. Aguero certainly made a differenceto the result, but he could to anybody. It was Kompany who really changed the game. We are capable of doing that too. I think our style is better suited to the Prem, which isn't as physical, and IF we can recruit judiciously - the Pozzo magic ingredient it seems - we will be fine.
I'll second that. Perhaps I am being a little over cautious but have seen clubs like Wolves under Jack Walker and many others where millions were spent fail to achieve the success they craved. This is a very hard league to get out of. It takes more than good players and a good manager -it takes a slice of luck too. Like you Bod I think that if we do get promoted we will do massively better than we have before in the Prem. Perhaps not as well as we did under GT - the amount of money at the top is now so heavily in the hands of the clubs that play in Europe that to come second would be more than a miracle. However you need look no further than Southampton and Swansea to see that carefully managed clubs can do very well. There are only seven or eight clubs in the Premiership that can realistically "expect" to finish in the top ten every year. That leaves another ten "ordinary" clubs who can survive. I believe the Pozzos have the resources to ensure that if promoted we will become one of the clubs - like Wigan and others before us - who come from humble backgrounds but can compete well
I believe the Pozzo model isn't just to get to the prem but to stay there and push for top half finishes. That I believe is why they don't want to go to a holloway, dowie, warnock type. It's important to build the foundation to get up but also stay up. Hopefully will play out positive this season..
The above couldn't be put better. Also, if the plan is to get us to the Prem - then it is important to remember this is one of the hardest leagues to get out of - worldwide!
yes good point.. .and I believe we will be able to build the squad unlike the recent GT and AB promotions which saw us with no funds to invest......
GT made the point very forcibly about promotion through playoffs. It wasn't just player recruitment, it's a complete shock to the system - rules on everythinh, e.g. looking after the ref and his mates ('they must all arrive at same time in 1 car provided by the home team' or some such). I assume things have converged but it still leaves you starting the season with one hand tied behind your back. A small anecdote from GT's first playoff promotion. He didn't realise that the prem had abandoned 'neutral' (as in location of home) refs, so when the golden boys played at sunderland, the ref was Jeff Winter, who lived In middlesboro, and knew all sunderland players by their first names and pallied up to them during the game. It was almost a case of 'when would you like a penalty Niall ?' (Niall quinn for our younger readers) And a consequence of the FA running prem is that when a prem club gets a lower league team in the FA cup, the FA appoint a Prem referee - who knows all the prem players, and the conventions on what is acceptable -or not, quite different from lower leagues. That's not to say the refs are biased, it's just a different game played to different standards, whatever the rules say. Makes me wonder why we want to go there ! Still, last night cheered me enormously - the wombles showed us what proper football is all about. Danny Murphy was professional - as in a professional footballers attitude to the game - without ever once patronising the wombles. Looking at the 2 performances, (liddypool & wombles) and looking at what the teams cost, just shows how barmy it is to treat football as a business. As the man said Q. 'How do you make a small fortune out of football ? A. 'Start with a large one'. I'm going to lie down now, i've been overthinking.
I'm not so sure that every Watford fan actually does desperately want us to go there. I suppose what we really want is for us to be able to get promoted and for the Pozzos to resource us sufficiently so that we can stay up this time, have some great away days and give a few of the so-called "big clubs" some bloody noses - as we did in days of yore. Most will not want us to go through the purgatory of our previous 6 seasons in the Premiership (Autumn, Winter, Spring etc.)
If Watford don't go up this season, will that mean their plan is a failure? I am not so sure, I think it has been a relative success so far. I think the Pozzo may have learnt a lot since being in charge. Also, I assume that they had a lot to learn too!
My main thought on the success criteria is that these credible attempts to get into the EPL have not been done as so many of our competitors have, by mortgaging their arses, then playing promotion or die roulette.
The Pozzos have made no secret of the fact that success for them is to reach the Premiership - and stay there. So by there own definition each season we are not promoted is not a "success". However (apart from some bozos on the Watty Obs site apparently)for most of us true fans these last two or three years have been marvellous and I doubt anyone on this board would label it a failure. I like being involved in a promotion drive and even though we have not yet made it the quality of our play - especially in the first season, and the quality of our players far exceeds anything we had for a long time before the Pozzos arrived. I still think it worth having this discussion about how the Pozzos will achieve their goal. If Jokavich does not take us up this year are we destined to be given a new manager next year and so on? There would come a time when I would expect them to try a different route - Plan B. There used to be a saying going something like "if |I do the same tomorrow as I did yesterday why wold I expect the result to be any different" Th ePzzos are intelligent football people and I am sure will consider all options at their disposal. I still hope though that SJ is a fast learner and we will get tehre this year.
Was not Plan A a five year plan - or is that just my imagination? Or perhaps the relative success of GFZ's first season made them review that downwards. I do think that SJ will achieve success this year for us though - especially if he continues the freezing out of the, er- dissident dressing room voices & manages to adequately replace them. It won't actually worry me if he doesn't, but, if he doesn't, I imagine we will be looking at another manager next season. Probably another European one, as leopards have a hard time changing their spots.
I think the 5 year plan was to get us established in the prem i.e. go up this year (3rd) , survive next year, mid table in the 5th. That's why last year was not treated as a disaster. The alternative model i.e. go up somehow, take the money and accept relegation, then use the riches from the single season to build properly to go up and be more solid seems more fraught with risk - esp. if the owners are tempted to use the riches to reimburse their original input.
Yes - I too thought it was a 3 year aim to get to the Prem. I think the Pozzos are right to aim for stability rather than yoyo status
I think the Pozzos are very, very keen to gain promotion this year, and will throw resources at the club in an effort to do so. The reason is in the recent financial statement, summarised in the WO but not much commented on. It shows that we have to pay off big debts to Ashcroft and others next years when the bonds become due. Also the players we have "borrowed or bought" " from other Pozzo clubs will need to be paid for. This means we need a lot of money next season, on the scale that only the Premiership can provide. If we did not get promoted and the Pozzos had to meet the bond repayments from their own resources, would it test their resolve?
Worrying... especially given the spectacular failure to get a half decent manager in place..... I seriously wonder what on earth is going on. At Hudds we were all over the place, well technically we weren't... but you know what I mean,.... in the first half. To my mind the players didn't know what they were supposed to be doing.... all change in the second half...
