Germany Land mass: 138,000 sq miles Population: 82M France Land mass: 272,900 sq miles Population: 63M United Kingdom Land mass: 94,000 sq miles Population: 64M Putting aside all other issues, basically our island is full to bursting and our hospitals, schools, public services etc. simply cannot cope. Shouldn't our European "Partners" (I use the term loosely), be accomodating more persecuted migrants ? <lightsbluetouchpaperemoticon>
Bit sarcastic TMC and unneccesary. The term used is quite obvious and relates as you know to the typical British person of the seventies and eighties who was deemed to be tolerant of most things as the Brits rarely have 'kicked off' in the way that many other contries nationals have through time. The point I was making is that these people have been pushed to the limit, ignored by the mainstream political parties and we have ended up with UKIP. All because the ordinary peson felt ignored. And you cannot compare London to Leicester, London really never has had the community as it is a mish mash of smaller towns and villages under one big roof. Southall though is one example of an area that is basically Asian now with little other integration, reinforcing my earlier observation.
I suggest you all read "the establishment" which highlights that the driver for all political parties is power and wealth and how the similarities between them outweighs the differences. Sovereignty is probably an illusion and UKIPs main driver has very little to do with immigration, but more about wealth. As for representative democracy- well it does not exist. Fundamental changes are required at the level which makes and enforces legislation.
Apologies if my sarcasm touched a nerve I would just add that I would be wary of labelling the people of the seventies and eighties as the "ordinary, decent" ones, I would actually say the 70's was period that showed far greater levels of intolerance even than today. That decade saw rise of the National Front, football hooliganism was rife, as was drink driving, we are now learning the some of levels of child abuse that was going on (practically in front of our eyes), not to mention rampant sexism, racism and homophobia - just watch some of the tv programmes from that era (Love Thy Neighbour and Mind Your Language to name but two) and try to say that is was a time of "decency" that you'd like to go back to. Thankfully we as a nation have been able to move on from those times, a vote for UKIP is a vote in the wrong direction if you ask me. I'd say we've ended up with UKIP not so much because the "ordinary person has been ignored", rather the fact people nowadays believe scare stories and what they are told by media outlets far more than they would do if they stepped back and analysed all the facts rather than swallow the guff spewed by the right-wing press. But again, this is just my opinion
I have never voted and have good friends from many ethnic backgrounds , my wife is Chinese and I have mixed race kids I have lived in Norfolk Brighton and 14 years in London I do not read newspapers or have a political afiliation. Unlimited Imigration is not practical and from my first hand experiences mainly in East London Newham where White British people are very much a minority ,the housing schools and public services are being used by the constant flow of migrants . If I could move to Poland Hungary or any of these places and be offered the same deal as we provide then fantastic but this is not the case and my European friends openly admit that jobs go to local people first in their cities and there is no way I would be offered free housing or benefits if i chose to try.
Sorry ? All I said was that Hitler blamed the Jews for Germany's woes and that his lies and propaganda galvanised the German people behind him. Basically when the people of a nation feel that their way of life is being threatened they will listen to whatever propaganda is given to them and this generally comes from right wing parties. How was that lighting the blue touch paper ??
One of the reasons why we have seen the rise of UKIP is because Labour have turned their backs on the traditional white working class vote and basically ignored them to go chasing after the immigrant and ethnic minority vote. What better illustration than the Middleton by-election result a few weeks ago when UKIP came within 600 votes of taking a traditional "Rock Solid" Labour seat in their heartlands! Every one says how badly the Tories will be effected by UKIP but Labour aren't immune! Far from it!
My understanding was that as soon as Hitler's name appeared in an online debate that was the point that sensible reasoning flies out the window. I realise now that this had occurred way before his name cropped up, so apologies for any confusion. Still doesn't change the fact that what you actually posted on the subject makes no sense and completely contradicts what you have now said however. Man, I knew I shouldn't have got involved in this thread!!
Me too, probably best to leave it alone now after all this is supposed to be a football forum ......I'm getting my coat
No no no TMC, I believe you are totally wrong here. Reading your various posts I think that essentially we are not that dis-similar, indeed it is just that I have experienced a litle bit too much reality whereas in the Greater London area it does not maybe hit quite as acutely. The last thing I would do is to react to press scare stories and I find the Daily Mail probably the most abhorent newspaper available for that very reason. My comments and observations have been based totally on what I see and have seen and my original post on this topic spoke of nothing other than these experiences. My comments about the rise of UKIP nationally may be based on some scare stories but this has nothing to do with my comments. You picked up on my example of Britain in the 70's and 80's and of course that could be sneered at but fundamnetally it reflected the naivity of our national caracter and our generally welcoming nature towards people we perceived to be suffering in less fortunate parts of the world. To think that as a nation we have moved to the point where we have UKIP as a major political force shows how much the politicians have abused our trust and faith.
I'd say God (not literally obviously because he's not real) has caused far more damage to this earth than Hitler ever did
There was a programme on C4 the weekend before last where a police sgt explained to a West Indian that referring to black people as "coons" wasnt an insult but just an expression.I am rarely shocked by stuff on TV but that was an exception.That aside the 70's were actually much better than today. I worked in Gt Yarmouth in the mid 70's and I bought my first house in 1977.Three bed detached £9300.My basic salary was £220 a month,but with overtime I was clearing £300+.That means that I could have paid off my house in 30months if I had paid off eveything I earned.Those houses are now £180k so the equivalent monthly pay would be £6000.
