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Well, they have to replace Webber sooner or later and neither of the Torro Rosso boys are good enough.

 

And they're going to replace Schumacher and Massa soon since they're both not good enough for their respected teams.

 

Perhaps I've misunderstood you there SilverArrow but, whilst your comment is undoubtedly true, what does that have to do with Hamilton possibly going to Red Bull?

 

It would be horrific for the team, but great to watch. I'm betting that horner will last 5 races before getting fired, because the big bosses will be fed up of the punch ups among Hamilton and Vettel.

 

I didn't refer to it in isolation, Westy, and, by opening with an agreement ("Yes, but...") that Hamilton was a negative influence, your comment actually implied that, even after considering Hamilton's disruptive effect, Horner would somehow conclude that employing him in order to stop McLaren having him was a clincher. It implied nothing about Horner's opinion of Hamilton's skill.

I also don't see why Red Bull should necessarily be thinking of replacing Webber, regardless of whether they can use his seat to block the competitiveness of other teams. As long as he's second in the WDC they have the WCC wrapped up. What improvement on that would another driver provide?

 

Ok Genj, I feel you've perhaps taken my comments more seriously than was intended or perhaps that I haven't communicated them properly. It was just a throw away comment that pointed out that, should Hamilton leave for Red Bull, McLaren's challenge would likely be curtailed (at least for a season or two) leaving only Ferrari as strong competition for the WCC.

I don't really see the disruptive thing myself. Even if that was the case, Red Bull have put up with Webber's stubbornness and his willingness to not toe the line with his comments to the media, especially last year, so I don't think they'd have a problem with Hamilton. Didn't they try to sign Alonso before he went to Ferrari? He's not exactly an easy going guy.

In terms of why Red Bull would want to sign another driver when they're 1st and 2nd in the championship, I agrees that there isn't much more you can do. The only improvement would be that when Vettel doesn't win, you would want your other driver to come 1st instead and so far Mark hasn't managed that but, other than that, he's doing a good job. The only other reason I can think of is purely that Hamilton is generally thought of as being a better driver than Webber.

Just another thought to throw out there - Does Webber keep having 1 year deals at Red Bull for his own benefit or for theirs?

 

I am in a very serious mood this morning, strangely - one of those moods when I wish people would stop saying 'of' when they mean 'have' or 'your' when they mean 'you're'.

That's the response I expected rather than it being better to have Hamilton on the inside pissing out. It may well be the case that other team bosses concur in opinion that he's not the disruptive, negative influence that some of us in cloud forum land perceive him to be. In that case your point about having him onside to restrict the competition is a good one, it's just not the case I was making.

Regarding Webber - I know but Webber's criticisms have been muted this season, which I believe is due to his opinion of his own performance. Last year Webber performed as well as Vettel and therefore had as much right to fight for the championship. That opportunity was denied to him by the team and so he was completely justified in criticising the situation he was put in. If he was beating Vettel this year and the team continued to favour Vettel then I think Webber would be just as vocal.

It's a totally different kettle of fish with Hamilton. Leaving aside his whinging on the radio, which he no doubt considers to be private, Hamilton has come out to interviews with reporters setting himself apart from the team and the decisions that were made. The phrase "we win together and we lose together" sounds as hollow on no driver's lips as Hamilton's. Yet there can be no doubt in his mind that the team do everything they can to help him to win.

I can't say that his criticisms are unjustified because McLaren do make mistakes. I just think he doesn't play smart in teamwork the way the likes of Button, Alonso, Vettel and Schumacher do. It's a big hole in his abilities and won't help his chances of winning more championships in the future.

[On that point, I consider Hamilton casting around for an alternative to be evidence that Button has beaten him. Button was never going to beat Hamilton on raw pace but he never needed to. From my armchair McLaren looks very much like Jenson Button's team at the moment.]

There seem to be hints every season that Webber will retire at the end of the year so that would indicate that the rolling contract is on his terms, probably to enable him to jack it in when he gets sick of it all. There's always a doubt though, isn't there, that voices like Marko's hold sway in Red Bull and demand one loose seat for one of next year's young drivers?

 

Really good point there, not many people (that I've noticed) have said or mentioned that. I agree, I think it is true and it's another reason Hamilton should move.

Not so much that Button is taking control, more that such a move to RBR/Ferrari would develop Hamilton and perhaps get him to learn new things. He has been too comfortable in that team and needs the move to freshen him up.

Perhaps RBR and Horner see this? A move would be good regardless, however I still maintain partnering Alonso, not Vettel, would be better for Hamilton.

 

Jenson seems the complete package in Mclaren, he is able to handle situations, doesnt seriously criticize the team (only about little handling problems), he wont crash stupidly. When he is on it he can win, whens hes bad fifth or sixth is his best.

When Lewis is bad he will probably end up sitting on the pit wall and mouths off the team to the end, when hes good he can win any race.

But i wouldnt like to be the guy who tells Lewis to cop on, i doubt they criticize him in Mclaren, but if he went to Red Bull id say they wouldnt be scared to say a thing or two.

 

Plenty of people on 606 claimed that Martin Whitmarsh was the antichrist and as dead set on ruining Hamilton as Andy Latham is on ruining his races. I don't mean anything of the sort. I just mean Button works well with people, has a professional attitude, is good at conveying information and links into the team well. I always thought (and said as much) that's how Button would beat Hamilton (and perhaps because of that I'm reading a tiny bit more into the situation than is factual) and with the vacillation and griping coming from Hamilton at the moment he looks every bit the unhappy bunny a Red Bull source Horner said he was...

... which brings me to another flight of fancy. I have a vague suspicion that Hamilton's meeting with Horner in Canada ("Lewis who?") was requested by Hamilton so he could apologise directly for his "just a drinks company" jibe, which Horner no doubt accepted in good humour. Any ongoing conversations between Red Bull and Hamilton might entirely be a case of Horner stringing Hamilton along to unsettle him this season - all in good humour, of course.

When Button wins he's as joyous as anyone on the grid. When he loses he's just disappointed. When Hamilton loses it's a catastrophe and he thinks it must be someone's fault (e.g. "I don't know who made the call but we'll find out..." after the "frickin' terrible idea" Australian GP last year). Vettel's not too magnanimous in defeat either. Then again, Alonso doesn't seem to get excited even when he wins.

 

Rosberg is willing to offer his services to other teams, so I think if we do have a driver change in one of the top teams (Hamilton leaving McLaren, Webber leaving Red Bull or Massa leaving Ferrari) Rosberg could be the driver replacing one of them.

http://globoesporte.globo.com/motor...cedes-mas-cobra-carro-vencedor-da-equipe.html

 

Seems pretty logical, fairly new drivers like Kobayashi and Petrov need a season or two more before they're ready. I'm not sure that established drivers like Kovi and Glock will be on the radar or not because they've been trundling around at the back. Sutil is a known element who just hasn't developed enough despite several years in F1. Drivers like Rubens and Trulli are past their prime and won't interest teams looking to build a strong future at the top.

 

Who is secretly hoping Hamilton leaves Mclaren and then the following season Mclaren design a world championship winning car?

 

Gosh, no. Perish the thought.

As I said on the Virgin/McLaren tie-up thread, I think if McLaren's game-plan is to introduce their own engine then it will be an amicable parting of the ways. They're going to want drivers who excel in providing useful feedback and he's going to want a team that is focused on winning the WDC. While I don't think McLaren will abandon the championship fight even for a year, I think there'll be a period when they are concentrated on a clearly defined strategic development plan that they won't easily deviate from in order to find more performance quickly. This may be why Hamilton's looking around.

Of course, if there's no McLaren engine then, with limited regulation changes next year and potentially in 2013, too, McLaren are as likely to challenge for championships as any of the top teams, so if Hamilton does go elsewhere it not only shows an disturbing lack of faith in the team that's supported him for so long but also is quite a risk for him to take.

 

Jenson is...

 

Hamilton v Button if they had the best car all season would be an interesting battle, I'm sure the most would expect Lewis to win easily, but Prost proved you don't have to be the best to beat the best in equal machinery, trundling around in 2nd and stealing the odd win is enough (which is why he campained to change it after he lost in 88). 3 2nds beats 2 1sts so you can't really race balls out like Senna did any more unless they allow 2 or 3 races to be dropped from your final tally (which I'd like to see happen in the WDC, but keep WCC all races)

 

That would be brilliant. It'll teach hamilton a lesson, that loyalty is better than glory hunting (by going to rbr, etc.) Trust me, i'm a gooner. Loyalty is important when you're a gooner, because we won't actually win a trophy.

 

Barrichello starting to look as as sure as a Paffett.

 

Well it looks like Horner is not keen on signing Hamilton.

 

Ex-GP2 driver Javier Villa has been linked with an HRT drive