Your idea of forgiveness and excuses for 1 manager in losing , compared to your thoughts on the same subject toward another manager in the past made me laugh out load dai ..
Really?? He just came off the bench against Arsenal and Man City and took Clichy and Gibbs to the cleaners on numerous occasions! Clichy and Gibbs are well regarded as two of the best, and quickest, right backs in the league and Barrow charged past them with ease at times. He's ready for the Premier League now, not later. He's shown he can compete and excel against the better teams, it's time to let him see if he can do it against the lesser teams, when he'll be expected to produce. If we don't let him try, I don't expect he'll still be at Swansea in 2 years time.
BigK - I don't think there's any question on Barrow's readiness for the Prem offensively. He's got all the tools to be a real threat right now. Defensively he has much to learn. Not that this should be a barrier to his starting for us, but it is a trade off and a "cost" of playing him that we will have to deal with on the short term. I am all for persevering with him now; especially against Palace and if that goes well against West Ham. If he's smart he will adjust and adapt to additional responsibilities quickly. For the U-21 he is probably used as more of #9 (yes?) so playing instead of one of our senior wingers he has a different role to master.
If Barrow is to be a starter then he must fit seamlessly into our game plan and improve our team. We've seen Monterro improve greatly after intensive training. He has a natural desire to be a great player, for us I might add, and to be on a par with Dyer and Routledge; which I think he's achieved already as the team isn't weakened if he starts. From what I've heard from Guys and Gals who know more than me about it, Barrow is considered to have more natural talent than anyone in the whole squad. He is, by all accounts, a dream to work with and has respect for everyone around him from trainers to tea-ladies. He listens to everyone and learns. He trains with no ego but with with the intensity of a teenager with the attitude of a seasoned pro akin to Bony. In his past he's been let down and has never been personally coached, just team coached, with us though that's very different. Every day he undergoes specialised, intensive training/coaching also trains with the first team and still studies in the class room with the U21's. Rumour has it he's already past Emnes in the first team selection battle and it is thought that if he continues as he has he will be a starter along side Monterro, Dyer and Routledge, so we may see him sooner rather than later. Gambia want him for the ACN now, is that good or bad? I think good as winning an international cap would repay him for his hard work to date.
I do agree that he will have to learn his defensive responsibilities at a new, higher level. However, watching videos of him online, he often attacks down the right hand side - which says to me that he certainly has experience playing on the right and, therefore, will have some experience and knowledge of what a right winger is expected to do defensively. It's not like we've chucked him on the right for the first time in his career - but he needs to apply it at a higher level now. He's 22 - that's 6 years older than Fabregas when he was first choice at Arsenal, Owen was 18 when he was first choice at Liverpool, Rooney was 17. Fabregas, Owen and Rooney will only have played youth level before stepping straight into PL level. So I don't agree with the notion that just because he hasn't played at this level yet, he can't do it. If kids under 18 can do it, then a 22 year old with more football experience can do it too. He looks the business, has unreal speed and skills to pay the bills. Monk will keep him honest with his defensive duties and workrate, so I think we could do much worse than give him a go. After an electric start, Routledge and Dyer have gone very quiet for me. Barrow is the rocket up their arses that they both need. It's not like we won't have Dyer and Routledge on the bench in case we need them. He looks like he could be a special player. Anyway, we don't really need to debate it because we will be seeing a lot of him over the next month anyway with plenty of games to come in December. So, regardless of whether he should be given a run in the side, he's going to play 3 or 4 games between now and New Year so we can assess him again in January. He could be a false dawn.
I dont think you can compare to the others, regarding age. Those players were brought up at top European clubs and with the quality coaching they had, they were always going to move on quick. Barrow has spent his time in semi pro sweedish second division. So just to say Fabregas was good enough at 17 so he must be at 22 doesnt hold water for me. Then on the other hand i believe he will be more than good enough but, he still has an awful lot to learn. You said i think he slaughtered the full backs in Gibbs and Clichy, I am not so convinced on that. He had a couple of good runs certainly down the middle against Arsenal to wn the free kick, but a couple of times against Gibbs, Gibbs knew to much for him and won the ball quite easily, maybe one to many step overs. I am not trying to do down how well he has played and the impact made in those 2 games, but for me he is still a long way off being the finished article which I do believe he can be. I still think he will sit as our 4th choice winger and may well get some time on the pitch over Xmas and in the FA Cup. It will be interesting to see if he does progress as well as most on here expect him to. He is certainly a find, but lets give him a bit of time before we make a proper judgement on him.
Ah theres a huge difference between a good manager who got a job managing a big team than another manager who thinks he is good enough for a big team but nobody was interested...
Carroll was sent to us to gain premiership experience, He looks good but is not the finished article yet and unless we have a chance to sign him then we are wasting giving one of our own much needed experience. In effect we are doing spurs job for them and we should not be doing that today as an established premiership side...
Some managers are good enough for ""A Big Club"" but deflect interest early from big clubs so they can show loyalty toward a smaller club and focus on theyre ability to keep players at the smaller club .Unfortunitely , some chairmen cant be trusted with such loyalty , and wouldnt know the difference betwern a handshake and a backstab ...
fair comment there Dai, why are we doing Spurs job? Imo Prem players should not be loaned out to other Prem sides unless they are of a certain age and experience.
Carroll is a U-21 international. He is as much a finished article as is Shelvey in all the key areas: technical ability, maturity, athleticism etc. Spurs have an over abundance of midfield players that they consider ahead of him on their depth chart. This is not so much a reflection on Carroll as it is a reflection of Spurs and their ability to assess players. The last time I looked at the table Spurs were looking up at us, so whatever they're doing with all of their talent it's not exactly working out so well and they shouldn't be patting themselves on the back. I don't think we're doing Spurs any favours, in fact I think they're doing us a favour. I look at Carroll as a cheap resource who can do the job and is a very good fit to the players around him and our style of play. If Spurs want to swap Carroll for Shelvey I'd do it in an instant.
Agree Stereo. If we can get another striker and someone who can cover both RB and LB, our squad will be very, very strong and very well balanced.
Come the summer and we have the option to buy Joe or Carroll for 5-10 million, who would you guys go for?
I'm not saying he's as good as Fabregas, Owen or Rooney. What I'm trying to say is that there's no such think as "too young" for the Premier League. Barrow probably won't ever reach the heights of any of those players, definitely not with Swansea, but the notion that he is too young or too inexperienced for the Premier League is utter nonsense, as 16-18 year olds can come straight from youth leagues into the Premier League. Most U-18 teams would struggle to beat League 2 sides - as is shown in the FA Cup regularly when youthful, inexperienced sides are knocked out by teams far below them in the league system. Also, I never said he slaughtered Gibbs and Clichy. I said "he took them to the cleaners on numerous occasions". This is the Premier League, no winger beats his full back 100% of the time. Barrow beat Clichy more times in 20 minutes than Dyer did in 70.
If spurs dont give us the option to buy carroll then i dont care how good he is we should be letting our players get the experience, We are not a side line for spurs to use giving their player ist team experience and letting our own players sit on the bench learning nothing. I would love to buy carroll but if that wont happen then why use him...
