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In the Spurs circus, who is the biggest clown?

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by Hoddle is a god, Nov 9, 2014.

?

Which of these clowns is most to blame?

  1. Levy

  2. Pock

  3. the squad

  4. all of them eqally

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    He had some off-field problems. Supposedly to do with his missus, but I don't know details, so I won't speculate.
     
    #121
  2. Spurm

    Spurm Well-Known Member

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    I thought you were gonna say he was on drugs, hence he was SO slow.
     
    #122
  3. NSIS

    NSIS Well-Known Member

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    Who?...Liverpool, I assume. IMO, their signings have been a mixed bag. Yes, they've made the same mistake we did by not doing enough homework before buying. But, the signings we made are arguably worse. And we had to pay a DOF a multi million salary to **** things up!..
     
    #123
  4. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    In the case of Modric, the fact that photos of Levy meeting with Modric and his representatives in Croatia popped up on the internet as soon as the deal was confirmed make it clear Comolli wasn't involved. As for Berbatov, that's even more straightforward - Jol himself said it.

    At the time it was suggested that his head wasn't right because his long-time girlfriend dumped him.
     
    #124
  5. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    If you mean our signings last year 1) they were made soon after Baldini came through the door so it is not clear which were his and which were AVB's and 2) At least 5 of them have plenty of time to come good. You should judge signings three years after you make them.

    You'd expect the signings to be a mixed bag whoever is responsible - the ones made under Comolli were sold for about £40m more than we paid for them which is large compared to say our gate income.

    We can judge Redknapp's signings quite well now: he is the only manager/DoF in the last 8 years to have a positive net spend. Who have we got to show for it - Walker, Friedel, Kaboul, Naughton and Ceballos.
     
    #125
  6. Spurm

    Spurm Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't mean he wasn't involved. For all we know Commolli could have said "we should get this Modric guy but i've got a lot of games/players to see, any chance you could go snag him?".
    I doubt Levy decided all by himself to go get him. Whether Commolli or Jol suggested him is just guesswork from us.
    As we should know by now, just because someone in football says something it doesn't necessarily mean its 100% true, even if its from nice man Jol.

    I'm not saying what you suggest isn't true, i'm just saying we have no actual proof it is.
     
    #126
  7. NSIS

    NSIS Well-Known Member

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    I think we've already seen enough of Paulinho, lamela, etc to know that at best we paid to much. At worst, we wre ripped off. I'm sure Levy would have been in discussions with Baldini long before he officially joined us. I find it very hard to believe his fingerprints, or at least his approval, are not all over those signings.

    Walker, Friedl and Kaboul were all good value signings. Even, arguably Naughton for what he cost us. A darn sight more than you can say about our recent dealings. Excluding Chadli.
     
    #127
  8. O.Spurcat

    O.Spurcat Well-Known Member

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    His long term partner dumped him and he suffered pretty much a mental breakdown over it. He went off the rails quite spectacularly by all accounts.
     
    #128
  9. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    I agree with that bit but in the years while we had a DoF we signed very cheaply players like Carrick, Berbatov, Modric and Bale who went on to join much bigger clubs than us. Harry's signings were quite good value but not transformative. If our club is going to catch the bigger spenders we either need a sugar daddy (and probably too late for that under FFP) or to take the risk on signings based on potential not proven worth. "To dare is to do". Harry got that almost exactly right on the field and almost exactly wrong off it.
     
    #129
  10. Spurm

    Spurm Well-Known Member

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    Bingo, imo.


    I dunno if the DoF was brought in so Levy didn't have to do the negotiating etc on transfers but why couldn't we do something like the following:

    DoF and his team (i assume he isn't just on his own) identifies and negotiates for players up to, say, 22 years old, within a set budget. Obviously he should be looking at the squad and seeing where deficiencies might lie in 1,2,3 years time and signing accordingly (eg, not just signing a gazillion centre mids). There is nothing to stop him talking to the current manager, or Levy, but to a certain extent this is HIS job.

    Manager, scouts, Levy and to a certain extent the DoF work towards strengthening the first XI. They should obviously look towards what is progressing through the academy and the younger players signed by the DoF but if the manager wants a particular player now then he gets the licence. Within a budget too of course.
    Similarly the DoF can be involved but this is primarily the manager's and Levy's job.


    The problem we had is Baldini came in and had to sign first teamers straight away, but what he actually did was signed quite a few younger players who then got chucked straight in due to their high price and because they were "limelight" signings rather than under the radar
     
    #130

  11. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't the first time Levy installed himself as a proxy DoF, as he decided to take charge of renegotiating Carrick's contract himself (and we all remember how well that worked out...) and it certainly wasn't the last as he was in Amsterdam meeting with Vertonghen in 2012, as well as arranging the deal for VDV - as Harry himself confirmed at the time.

    Jol got it almost exactly right on the field too, barring a dodgy lasagna, and that had plenty to do with support from Arnesen as DoF. The problem we blundered into with Comolli and Baldini is the DoF isn't supporting the manager, instead they're having bright ideas - and not all bright ideas pay off, as the video of that bloke microwaving a glow stick that's doing the rounds will demonstrate.
     
    #131
  12. NSIS

    NSIS Well-Known Member

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    As I'm sure you've read, there is considerable debate over who should be credited with the Modric & Berbatov signings. Bale was deemed to be a mistake for a long time. In fact, the club tried to sell him.

    Again, yes I agree that if you insist on a DOF structure he should be able to spot potential signings, and alert the manager. It should still be in my opinion, the job of the manager to have the final say as to whether he considers that potential signing will fit into his squad.
     
    #132
  13. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    It's been a good discussion but I think its run its course now. I think the difference between us is summarised by the inclusion of the penultimate word in your last sentence.
     
    #133
  14. NSIS

    NSIS Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. I know that we both want what's best for the club. We just have a few differences on what that is.
     
    #134
  15. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

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    Do these D of F's actually watch the players before they buy them or do they read the comics (ie Daily Mail etc)?
     
    #135
  16. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Depends - Arnesen certainly appeared to do so as he signed players that fit into what the team needed, at Atletico seems to be aware of what he's doing - on the other hand there's Comolli who has a talent for spending a large amount of a club's money on players that don't fit in with what the team actually needs.
     
    #136
  17. Spudulike

    Spudulike Well-Known Member

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    Redknapp has just come out and made some pretty scathing remarks about the DOF system. We all know he didn't like them but his angle on why does make a great deal of sense to me. Okay so he tended to favour the older, more experienced players when picking teams and signing new players, not giving youth players much chance but the facts don't lie.. he was our most successful league manager for many decades.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...6/Harry-Redknapp-Directors-football-joke.html

    QPR boss Harry Redknapp has launched an attack on directors of football, insisting that he could never work alongside one at Loftus Road. The former Tottenham boss ripped into the system used by Spurs, who sit 12th in the Premier League following a huge but generally unsuccessful recruitment drive in the summer of 2013. Under the guidance of technical director Franco Baldini, the north London outfit spent the money earned from Gareth Bale's world record move to Real Madrid on seven players at a cost of £107million.

    Andre Villas-Boas was sacked by chairman Daniel Levy just a few months later, with summer acquisitions including Paulinho, Roberto Soldado and Erik Lamela failing to live up to their hefty price-tags. Redknapp, who has complete control of purchases at QPR, cannot see the sense in managers being forced to work with players that they have not chosen themselves. In an interview with the Evening Standard, Redknapp said: 'It totally undermines your role as manager if you're not picking the players. It's a joke really that you are expected to work with someone else's players. It's all very well someone recommending players to you but when they don't work out, it's your head on the block.' The 67-year-old made his feelings about working under a director of football clear to Tottenham when he moved to White Hart Lane in 2008, resulting in Damien Comolli being sacked.

    And Redknapp insists that it is not fair that managers are judged - and possibly sacked - because of decisions not made by them. He added: 'I'm just not in favour of that. As a manager I have to select the players, train them every day and make decisions. To expect me to work with players someone else has decided I want is a nonsense. I want to make my own decisions and rightfully so. If things don't work out fine, I'm responsible for that. But why should I be accountable for someone else's mistakes? 'My head's on the block when it goes wrong so no I'm not going to support something that could cost me my job and I have no say in it.'


    Lord Sugar has also put his two cents worth in recently saying Baldini should be sacked as he signed this lot who have failed to spark (although this is the same Lord Sugar who called for AVBs head saying it was his fault that this same group of players couldn't win anything last season so typically fickle Sugar).

    This situation then begs the question... what does Levy do? It's clear Levy doesn't want to be the man to handle signings without a DOF, his record of having DOFs to date haven't exactly been glowing so he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't? Suggests to me that Levy isn't the right man at the top if he can't either a) find the right people to do that job or b) do it himself.

    Bucks stops.
     
    #137
  18. smhbcfc

    smhbcfc Well-Known Member

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    I think if you have a DOF then he and the Manager/Coach need to get on well - if they don't it leads to trouble
     
    #138
  19. Spudulike

    Spudulike Well-Known Member

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    The only pair that we know for sure got on well were Arnesen and Jol. Baldini has had three managers to work with sine installed. Doesn't give you much confidence does it?
     
    #139
  20. littleDinosaurLuke

    littleDinosaurLuke Well-Known Member

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    'Arry has said it all.

    It seems like madness to me.
     
    #140

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