1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

In the Spurs circus, who is the biggest clown?

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by Hoddle is a god, Nov 9, 2014.

?

Which of these clowns is most to blame?

  1. Levy

  2. Pock

  3. the squad

  4. all of them eqally

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    41,094
    Likes Received:
    48,325
    I think my answer lies partly within your response there, Spurf - "lack of passion" and also a lack of commitment/ professionalism.

    I don't feel the players have the willingness and drive to work in the formations and tactics that's being asked of them by the managers. All 3 managers had a different approach to the game. While I do believe the manager has to play a formation that suits the players, he also has to ensure the players are right for the philosophy and ideas he wants to play. Take Mourinho for example, he took the decision to sell Mata because Mata didn't suit HIS philosophy, Mata was arguably Chelsea's best player the season before Jose took charge and so selling that type of player would cause raised eyebrows amongst many, I think even Chelsea fans were a bit taken aback by his decision to sell but the performances his team are displaying now clearly shows why he was happy to let him go and why he wasn't part of his plans. Now of course Mourinho's in a position where he can buy all the top players he wants so he'll always have an advantage over most but he still makes sure the players he has fit into his philosophy and tactics and if a player doesn't like that, he'll quickly show them the exit door. Martinez has been able to implement his strategy onto Everton, Koeman has done the same with Soton (especially as he got to sign the players he wanted, which I'll get onto in a separate paragraph), Pep with Bayern and I'm sure there are many other examples, so why can't our lot adapt to Poch's style? I believe it's because we've got too many who lack professionalism, instead of putting in the extra work at training I think most would rather go home, play FIFA and buy designer gear for them and their flashy wag while counting down the days until the season is over to go on a luxury holiday.

    Poch has taken over a team that he may have hoped will have adapted well to his tactics. Before taking over, after watching Soton play last season I thought he was a perfect fit for our players (still do to a point but the players need to buck up), I felt our squad were in a similar mould but upgrades on most of the players at Soton, so it seemed somewhat of a perfect match but unfortunately something just isn't clicking, which I lay most of the blame with the players. He also had a few targets that Levy decided not to pursue and instead signed cheaper alternatives (Stambouli - Schneiderlin and Fazio - Musacchio), it can't be easy when you're asking for a certain player but your chairmen tells you no and instead buys a cheaper (and likely less capable) version of the standard you want. Poch isn't the first manager at Spurs who's had this problem either. Just look at what happens when a manager gets the players he wants, Koeman is reaping that benefit, Martinez was allowed to break the bank for Everton with Lukaku's purchase plus Eto'o who no doubt has huge wages, Allardyce was able to bring in the two strikers he chased and look how that's paying dividends, Monk allowed Michu, Chico and Hernandez to leave, signed the players he probably felt were just as good if not better and things are very rosy for Swansea at the moment.

    It's only really been this season where I've truly taken a look at how hard it is for a Spurs manager, not only are they seemingly taking over a group of players that I feel are pretty unprofessional but they're also not being allowed to sign the players they feel will benefit their system/ philosophy, this is all on top of having to please a very demanding set of fans.
     
    #81
  2. No Kane No Gain

    No Kane No Gain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    20,582
    Likes Received:
    3,483
    Tempted to say all of them but I've no idea whether it's true. What I do know is that the players on the pitch yesterday were shocking from start to finish.

    I really hope Pochettino put a rocket up them, they were unbelievable yesterday. The goal yesterday was the only good point of the entire game and even that came from 2 players that were part of the problem in the rest of the 90 minutes. I know the players don't train after a game but Pochettino should be calling them in anyway, to watch our last few games and confront where it's going wrong. A lack of ideas on the pitch seems to be a big problem at the moment... well a lack of good ideas, there were lots of bad ideas from the players lately.
     
    #82
  3. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,316
    Likes Received:
    55,790
    International break. It's hard to believe that a lot of them will actually get called up, based on their current form, but I think that a lot of the squad will be missing.
     
    #83
  4. No Kane No Gain

    No Kane No Gain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    20,582
    Likes Received:
    3,483
    Oh ****, forgot about that.

    Still there should be enough players in to give a real dressing down and basic lesson in football to.
     
    #84
  5. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,316
    Likes Received:
    55,790
    Players that have been called up: http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/november-international-preview-101114/
    Who's left? Friedel, Vorm, Rose, Naughton, Dier, Kaboul, Lennon, Paulinho, Soldado, Stambouli, Capoue, Mason, Bentaleb. A couple of them are injured.
     
    #85
  6. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    13,086
    Likes Received:
    5,667
    Blimey Fazio gets a recall - based on his latest form? The alternatives must be shockingly bad players
     
    #86
  7. No Kane No Gain

    No Kane No Gain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2011
    Messages:
    20,582
    Likes Received:
    3,483
    Obviously Naughton won't be playing against Hull but that's 5 of the 10 outfield players that started yesterday and frankly anyone who was left out of that team should feel they they have a chance of starting after that. Add in the under 21s and there's more than enough to go through things with and if any impress, or show even a basic understanding of what we're doing wrong, then they should be in.
     
    #87
  8. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,316
    Likes Received:
    55,790
    Lots of them have been called up, too.
    Should still be able to get some work done, especially on defending.
     
    #88
  9. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    10,551
    Likes Received:
    3,596
    Interesting point about Man U.They win more than they lose with pots to go with it.Thats what it is all about with many "good"players.Having wealthy owners doesn't hurt a bit.
    Who would you pick to go to for money and pots.......Spurs or Man U?
    We have great traditions but for us really only up to the mid 80's when "good" players might have come to us instead of United(?).
    We no longer can live with them.
    Today we have 3 wealthy clubs.Two are always around the top and the third is just going through a quiet period,before they hit the top again.....and they will!
     
    #89
  10. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    25,270
    Likes Received:
    15,398
    http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/nov/11/arsenal-tottenham-fans-question-clubs
     
    #90

  11. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    69,827
    Likes Received:
    30,607
    If the Standard is to be believed, Baldini is going to be made the scapegoat - although that does seem to be rather neat, as last month there were rumours linking us with Monchi, aka Sevilla's DoF, who happens to be out of contract at the end of the season.

    At this rate, papers will have easy headlines about the number of DoFs we've got through since Levy took over...
     
    #91
  12. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    10,551
    Likes Received:
    3,596
    I'm still trying to figure out what a D of F actually does.I assume he dances to Levy's beat but does he speak to the manager/coach about players,whether they are settled,want to learn the language or want to learn how to play in the PL?
    Didn't Bill,or Shankly,or Fergie do all this themselves or are today's managers just plain dumb?
     
    #92
  13. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    10,551
    Likes Received:
    3,596
    I've always assumed Fergie bought the players HE wanted!
     
    #93
  14. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    69,827
    Likes Received:
    30,607
    The way a DoF model should work is that the club hire the DoF, the DoF identifies the manager to take them forward, and identifies players for the manager to sign. This is how the model works on the continent, and is more or less how it worked with the Jol/Arnesen partnership.

    Since then, however, we keep messing it up - either bringing in Comolli to work with an incumbent manager (or not, in the case of the Jol/Comolli non-partnership), Levy ignoring the DoF (Arnesen wanted Jol, Levy got cold feet and brought in Santini at the last minute), or the manager ignoring the DoF (Baldini wanted Benteke, AVB wanted Soldado) Plenty of fans also believe the real reason the DoF exists at Spurs is to get an extra buffer of blame between the pitch and the boardroom.
     
    #94
  15. NSIS

    NSIS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    36,067
    Likes Received:
    14,555
    He did, if they were available and within budget. It's what every decent coach/manager should be able to do. Yes, a DOF can identify targets within the criteria set by the manager - I.e. Striker, etc. but the final say on who would fulfil the requirements best, should rest with the manager, IMO.
     
    #95
  16. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    13,086
    Likes Received:
    5,667
    I'm not sure any particular arrangement is better than any other but somehow the longterm needs of the club need to be looked after whereas the coach should be concentrating on getting the most out of the team today.
    As an analogy think of a formula 1 team. Levy is the team principal who sets budgets and strategy, the DoF is the Chief Engineer, the Coach/manager is the driver and the Squad is the car. So the DoF designs the squad and the coach gets the best he can out of it. Of course there is feedback between the two but that shouldn't be an issue. Those arguing for the coach/manager having the final say are saying that McLaren would work better if Hamilton designed the car!
     
    #96
  17. Spurm

    Spurm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    9,417
    Likes Received:
    683
    I'm not sure they'd be too keen on letting a rival driver design their car tbh ;)
     
    #97
  18. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2011
    Messages:
    69,827
    Likes Received:
    30,607
    There's rumours there may be a new name on the tent, but the ringleader remains the same: http://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnatio...ham-hotspur-carlysle-takeover-bid-daniel-levy

    Of course, given the last "bid" was made by a company that didn't exist, and this alleged bid is remarkably light on details, I'll believe it when Apple say they're going to right their wrongs of not paying tax in the UK by buying Spurs...
     
    #98
  19. NSIS

    NSIS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    36,067
    Likes Received:
    14,555
    I think that's a poor and pointless analogy. We are talking about eleven football players, not a machine. Besides, drivers DO have quite a say in the development of their car.

    I remain unshakeably convinced that any Coach/manager worth his salt has a far better handle on the balance, strengths and weaknesses of the squad by working with them every day. Not some DOF sat in an office or jetting off somewhere around the globe.
     
    #99
  20. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    13,086
    Likes Received:
    5,667
    Bugger - I was sure I'd typed Mercedes
     
    #100

Share This Page