The thing that confuses me, is why these diggers/tractors don't have a solid skirt (or armco type thing) of some sorts around them? I mean i understand they need to go over gravel traps etc so do need some kind of ground clearance, but not so much that an F1 car can pretty much go underneath one and a drivers head becomes the crumple zone.
The one in America FP last year was almost as bad (can't remember if it was a Sauber or a Marussia they were trying to clear), where they took something like 12 minutes to clear a car that had stopped at the side of the track (On tarmac) because they got the back wheels on the tractor beached in the gravel trap. A lot of venues need a good look at their marshaling and procedures.
Perhaps F1 should consider providing a professional group of fully trained and competent marshals who attend each GP worldwide at least we could then guarantee we have some consistency and would know which flag to wave, also the use of an up-rated lighting system managed by race control would be much more effective and able to respond quicker. Cost, I hear !!! what cost a life eh.
I think the flags were essentially correct (and we can only assume the yellow warning light would have been going off in Bianchi's car as well). It's the same problem as you see in day to day driving, how many people start accelerating out of 30 zones when they see the national sign in the distance, even when not in a rush and certainly not in a race.
Considering even Gary Hartstein reckons the marshals did nothing wrong, I think we can safely conclude the marshals probably did nothing wrong.
Considering the situation also remarkable that Bianchi didn't collect the marshals on his way to the incident.
On a brighter note, I think Hamilton has now unquestionably confirmed his superiority regarding his abilities as master of the Mercedes and probably the entire grid, shame about the haircut though. Even to a non believer that overtake on Rosberg was 'sommat else'
I can't understand for the life of me why the marshals were fighting so hard with Sutil's car. That in itself was a spectacle.. It was like a comedy of errors. That was totally unacceptable. I still believe that the JCB shouldn't be there especially in such a dangerous area of the track.
I think what actually happened is we could have seen them wondering what to do with Sutil's car after Bianchi had hit the JCB, as it is not known exactly when Bianchi hit the JCB when we look at the TV images. The only clue is when they appeared to be struggling, the back tyres of the JCB are deflated, it can be assumed following Bianchi's impact. I imagine the marshalls were probably in a state of panic, with some attending to Jules and others wondering what to do with Sutil's car as it hung on the end of the JCB
I feel I should update a point I made which may have misled to the forum. After a quick look, I've been unable to find a comment I made which was critical of signals being given out from the marshal post at the Sutil/Bianchi crash site; specifically the Green Flag which was waved right up until the Safety Car was eventually deployed. My criticism was emotionally charged immediately after seeing Bianchi's crash from another angle â rather than technically accurate â and was the result of several factors combined. The point I was trying to make was that I believe errors were made in containing the situation prior to Bianchi's next arrival at Dunlop Curve, which I believe was well in excess of a minute. My opinion, (and I stress, this is not borne of hindsight) is and was that immediate deployment of the SC to recover Sutil's dangerously exposed car in the run-off â especially in the conditions â was essential. Although with regard to the Green Flag I may have made my point too strongly, it was being shown (unusually) right over the crash site in full view of approaching drivers yet to pass the exposed marshals and three dangerously positioned vehicles. I should emphasise that this Green Flag was technically correct (just), and I believe double waved yellows were being shown at the preceding marshalling post. My anger however, remains: the Safety Car needed to be deployed prior to any effort to recover Sutil's vehcle. As explained elsewhere, this belief is not the result of hindsight: as I saw Sutil slide off, my instant concern was that the SC be deployed without delay to recover a vehicle from that position at Dunlop: a corner I know only too well. Initial concern quickly became dismay as I saw no apparent sense of urgency for the SC and like a living nightmare, was well before Bianchi arrived upon the scene⦠©
That is the general consensus of the forum. When you look at other SC deployments this year where it was highly questionable if one was required due to a car being off the racing line and well off the track, there have been occasions where you wonder why no SC was deployed when it was evident it was needed more than ever. As I alluded to in an earlier post, Sutil spinning on the final corner at Germany, meaning marshals had to recover his car from the middle of the track was also done under waved yellows, when clearly a SC would have been better because the marhsals were exposed to cars on the track at racing speed. Whilst I do sometimes despair at the broken races they have in America where a SC is out for almost everything, it seems leaving it to human judgement isn't enough anymore. If a car has to be recovered by Marshals because a driver cannot bring it to a halt himself in a safe place, then an SC is going to have to be deployed. What are the chances of litigation by the Bianchi family it is seen that the FIA failed to implement their own procedures here for dealing with the SC?
I admit too, the second Sutil crashed i thought "safety car, this will make the battle at the front interesting, the Red Bulls are flying, they could have the mercs now, especially with the conditions getting worse" Then i wondered where the safety car was, Outside of a wet corner, cars staring to struggle badly for grip, then saw the tractor struggling (unknown Jules had hit it at that stage). The safety car should have been out the second Sutil was off given the conditions, to protect the marshalls if nothing else, it was probably the most obvious safety car you'll see. I guess the marshalls were on it so quick they thought they could get it moved in about 1 laps time. That said, IF the safety car had been out, remember the cars would have been still catching it up, there's no certainty it would have stopped Jules's crash. As sad as it sounds, it was just a perfect storm and bad luck. The only way it could have been avoided was the tractor not being there.
Agree with this, Vettel reported aquaplaning at 80kmph under the first safety car at a similar point on track, so there's no guarantee the safety car would have prevented the crash. It would have dramatically reduced the speed though, which would have made the accident less horrific. I wondered why there was such a rush to shift Sutil's car. In worsening conditions in a known blackspot, as soon as Sutil was clear it felt to me like leaving his car in place would have been the lesser of two evils. It seemed unlikely that the race would have continued without the crash due to the change in conditions anyway.
It wasn't so much the position of the accident for me, but the way that the accident happened, it was obvious the way Sutil crashed that he had aquaplaned there so it was a good bet that another car would do exactly the same and end up in the same place. I knew when I saw Sutil's car come off and the JCB there without the SC that this was where the accident we had been forewarned about was going to happen. Perfect storm, yes, but I will say what everyone else is reluctant to, I believe it was Bianchi's fault, I would be interested to see exactly how much he had let off through the double waved yellows, my guess is hardly at all.
It's not just you, I've asked the question about seeing Bianchi's telemetry to determine whether he adjusted his speed accordingly to the flags.
I think Gary Hartstein put it best when he said that if it was just bad luck because of this culture of not slowing down for yellows, that actually makes it more horrible in a way. I agree that the release of the safety car has often been lax this season and I think that (plus hopefully forcing limits when under double waved yellows) should be the main takeaway.
It has crossed my mind that Bianchi was pushing it too much, however remember, conditions were changing by the second and most of that section was clear and green flagged, every driver was pushing it, It could have been any one of them caught out.
