If you read my post correctly I did not say "He would have won the league for us" - I said that other people were saying that he would have won the league for us. And as you say he did not a lot, but you seem to think he did not a lot because he was rubbish and deserved the abuse thrown at him, I think it was as a result of a horrendous, career threatening injury, which took him a long time to recover from. And now that he has (touch wood), then he is showing his full class. I'm not sure why you think that just because your paid a lot of money, you suddenly become different from other human beings and don't get affected by confidence?
Aside from United who lost possibly the greatest ever manager in the history of football... who else? Opinion actually... Only manager? EVER? IN the history of football? incredible stat if true... but we all know it isn't. And even if you just mean RECENT history of league wins, then you're stretching it at that. 2003/04 was a different era of football with only one other good team to beat. Based on anything other than just your own opinion? Eh? Are you suggesting this is our first season with good financial clout?? Are you an Arsenal fan?
No you didn't, you said "would have won us the league single handedly if he hadn't been injured". You started the previous section of your comment talking about what fans thought then put a comma in. Maybe Where have I said that players aren't affected by confidence? I've said that Ramsay was rubbish for a long time. And if you play professional football you should expect abuse if you're rubbish. That's the way professional football is in this country.
In his first couple of seasons as a teenager with us he showed glimpses of great potential and was highly rated. He then got injured and spent the best part of a year out of action. Following this was a season where he was shipped out on loan to try and gain some fitness. He was still struggling after his horrific injury at this point. He then got thrown into the team due to fabregas and Nasri leaving. He wasn't up to the level to be able to do that yet and struggled. Overall it was a poor season for him but given the circumstances I hardly find that surprising. Then in 12/13 he started to find his form and by the end of the season had created a solid hard working partnership with Arteta which was the base for us achieving CL football that year. He had a very good second half of that season. Then last season he was arguably our best player, definitely amongst the best midfielders in the league. This season he looked slightly unfit at the start of the season but still contributed 3 goals before being injured. People where wrong about Ramsey. He had one season where he was poor and everyone crucified him. "He'll never be good enough for Arsenal" "he belongs in non-league football" etc etc... Which was completely wrong.
Sorry I should have said in the Premier League - ie Man U routinely broke transfer records and outspent almost everyone before the Chelsea and Man C era. The only clubs to try and match Man U's spending were Blackburn - who won the league, then went bankrupt, Newcastle missed out on the league then got into trouble, and Leeds - missed out and went bankrupt. Arsenal won the league and more than competed with Man U, and Chelsea's money without ever spending more than £15m on any one player until Ozil. And when I say compete I mean just that - finishing 1st, 2nd, getting to cup finals, running the winners close - even last year we were top for longer than anyone - that is competing. With managers, when Man U got rid of Ferg they plummeted, when Liverpool got rid of Benetiz they plummeted despite spending lots of money, Spurs got rid of Redknapp and didn't improve in spite of spending lots. Getting rid of a manger doesn't guarantee improvements - and I don't see why people react so aggressively when someone suggests that getting rid of Wenger may not actually improve the situation, and could lead to things getting much worse. I mean it's only a point of view at the end of the day. It's hardly only my own opinion that Wenger is a top manager - many professional footballers and managers frequently state that he is a top manager. Yes I am an Arsenal fan - since around the start of the 90s (though I was very young then), and I remember back then that we struggled to compete with the other teams, and generally had a good season if we had some successful cup runs (1993, or the Cup Winners Cup of 1994, or the failure of 1995) when Wenger took over we could never dream of spending the £25m + on players like Ferdinand, Rooney, Veron, Shevkenko, Essien or Drogba. And even a few seasons ago it would have been a massive risk to spend £16m or £20m on players like Phil Jones or Henderson - unproven youngsters, which other teams did without thinking. Now we do have that financial clout.
When Ramsey came out, he initially showed potential but unfortunate for him, he got injured. He was decent at best and only from the beginning of last season did he show the promise that we all thought he had. Although the heavy criticism he got was wrong, he is entitled to get criticised for poor performances like all the other players.
He was one of the better players in our team for the six months preceding last season too. It's when the Ramsey. Arteta partnership started to really work for us. For the whole calendar year of 2013 Ramsey was in good form.
I can't believe your having a go at me for a misplaced comma! And you said that "he chose to play in a profession where thousands of people pay a lot of money to sit there and watch you perform. If you can't deal with what they're going to say then don't choose to play football and let someone else earn £50k a week." I responded by indicating that of course things like that are going to affect someone's confidence, and confidence affects people, and thus their performance.
There are top managers and there are the best, he is not the best anymore. The best are Maureen, Klopp, Simeone and Pep. Wenger is in the second tier of managers. Also you talk of finances, the last time I checked, both Klopp and Simeone didn't have huge amounts at their disposal and even lost players, yet they won the league and Champions league against far richer and better squads. How do you explain this? Only explanation is they are excellent managers and know how to use tactics to beat their opposition.
Yes he came back well but the fact remains that he really only took off last season. I think we were all surprised at the level he took it to. If you put a poll out and asked the fans who they thought would take it to the next level out of Ramsey or Wilshere, the majority would have picked Wilshere.
I agree I would have chosen Wilshere as well - but the amount of criticism Ramsey got when he wasn't playing poorly last season was uncalled for. Personally I can see the same happening this season with Wilshere and Ozil...
Our fans always feel the need for a scapegoat and once they've got that player in there heads they are on the lookout for any mistake to justify there position. It gets stuck that way, which is a shame.
I totally agree with you, sometimes players get over the top criticism that is bordering on abuse. The prime example being Eboue, he got some disgraceful levels of criticism from the fans. I do hope that Ozil and Wilshere do not get it.
So do I, it was a shame with Eboue - amazing that he managed to take it all with a smile, and then somehow people decided he was good and started cheering him again. It seems a shame as well that we seem to spend most of our time on this forum stating why player x should never play for us again, or shouldn't play coz he's terrible at y. Or that our manager needs to be sacked asap... ect instead of something maybe more positive, like if we had player b we'd be unbeatable, or if we manage to get a result against club z then we'd be able to put a good run together. I admit maybe it's just me, or maybe it's just perspective, but it might be nice to see a more positive outlook.
After 10 years, the positive outlooks have gone. What's there to be positive about? Finishing 4th forever? Summer 2013 - ooooh now we have Ozil we'll be better. Result = 4th. Summer 2014 - ooooh now we have Sanchez we'll be better. Result = 10 points from 7 games. The evidence of the last 18 months suggests that world class players coming in is going to make little difference to us being up there with the best in the premier league. And let's face it... that's the only thing we all want.
I'm checking out of this conversation - I feel it will go the same way as every other thread on this forum, a moanfest at the club/players/manager/other forum users, and an over-riding outlook that everything is terrible and nothing will ever be better.
And in the next sentence you've summed yourself up. A football forum isn't for talking about football, tactics, transfers or players. It's only for moaning about Wenger
