We have shown Wenger increadible amounts of loyality to be honest. He has done a fantastic job in making us a powerhouse in football and he is getting paid handsomely for it. But that part of his job is over and it's time for him to challenge the best in the business as we are technically the best in the business too. It is a results business and he needs to do a lot better than pick up an FA cup after 9 years in charge, especially when we had teams good enough to win more than a solitary cup (not including the Charity shield).
Cement his legacy? Insanity. I can't see him doing anything other than tarnishing even more so than he's already done. Of course it's pointless to whine about Wenger in so much as whining achieves nothing. But then it's just as pointless to talk about tactics or transfers too because no manager of any team reads forums to decide what tactics to use or which players to sign. So why talk about that either? In fact why talk about anything to do with football full stop given that we will have no impact on anything? This is a forum. So of course it's not pointless to talk about Wenger not being good enough. That's exactly what a forum is for. To talk about suff in the knowledge that nothing you ever say actually makes any difference. Us calling for his head doesn't damage anything, feeling or players. What are there... about 20 regular posters on here? Are you crazy enough to think the players and Wenger are regularly reading this Arsenal forum and getting really upset by the posts on here from 20 odd people?
Such an unfair assessment. During that nine year spell he oversaw us moving stadiums and managed the team on a budget compared to our rivals. Had city and Chelsea not come into the picture he'd have a handful of trophies including league titles in that time. But the football landscape totally changed and he kept us stable throughout. Utd, Chelsea, city and Liverpool have all got a higher actual and net spend than arsenal in that time. During that spell we also reached a handful of cup finals including the champions league and ran the league title very close on a couple of occasions. It's thin margins in football and the odd different bit of luck here and there and we would have won more. We needed to stay in the CL until the sponsorship deals came up for renewal and the stadium debt was in a manageable position. Wenger did exactly what the board wanted him to and kept us where we needed to be for the entire duration we had to be there. I'm not saying he couldn't have made better decisions at times or won more, but the trophy less years show a huge amount of commitment from him to stay at the club and deal with the financial constraints and develop our club and infrastructure rather than bail to Real Madrid, PSG etc... Now the club are showing him loyalty by giving him an opportunity to benefit from our new resources. In our first season since the changes at our club we've won a trophy and put in our first title challenge for years. Whether he will continue to have good seasons or whether we will fall back to fighting for top four and being trophy-less is yet to be seen. But I think the club will give him that chance to sink or swim. And we as fans should too. Yes we've all been disappointed and frustrated at the things that seem to happen over and over, recurring injuries, losing to the big teams, not managing to fill the spots in the squad the fans want etc... But let's remember the position we've been in as a club recently and the good platform we now have and give wenger his chance to get us more silverware. He's going to be with us for another few years yet so people would find things much easier to deal I with if they accepted the reality of the situation.
The general feeling among sections of the fans goes beyond these forums, this is just a small representation of our fanbase. When Ramsey was playing **** wenger came out and said the ill feeling from the fans had really negatively effected him. Is it really beyond the realms of possibility to think that an ill will towards the manager and people always calling for his head might have a negative effect on him and the team? I'm all for discussion of different topics, but all the random wenger out comments, usually accompanied by having a go at anyone who disagrees isn't discussion, it's pointless. It won't achieve anything and it just kills the forum.
Lots of fans aren't happy with him as manager regardless of what you say (simply because they don't agree with the sentiment of what you say). You would find things much easier to deal I with if you accepted the reality of the situation.
I accept people don't agree with me... Doesn't mean I can't try and stop the bullshit way they put there views across which makes this forum turn to ****.
No discussions on this forum achieve anything. The negative feelings to Ramsay were valid. He was rubbish for a long, long, long, long time. In fact he's been rubbish for us for far longer than he's been great. And this season before injury he wasn't particularly great again either. It seems to be a general trend that this club puts up with mediocrity for far longer than any other club in the hope that things will get better. Lot's of other clubs make changes to actively make things better. if you knew you could get a year or two of success from someone (player or manager), how much time would you put up with under-performance for? Months? A year? 2 years? 5 years? 10 years? Now if you didn't know you were going to get success from someone and were just hoping for it, how much time would you put up with under-performance for? This is where the crux of the differences are in Arsenal fans i think. Some are willing to put up with a lot of cr@p... some aren't.
It also doesn't mean they can't try and stop the way in which views they oppose are put across too. Why do you feel like you need to stop their views without accepting that they should also have the right to try and stop your views? Don't try and make out that all the anti-Wenger posts are the ones which are written in a bullshit way while all the pro-Wenger posts are eloquent and non-winding-up.
The negative comments towards Ramsey where completely over the top and hampered his form. s**t behaviour from the fans. He struggled to return from injury and had to take on the creative burden of fabregas and Nasri leaving and play week in week out. He worked really hard and the fans just gave him constant s**t. They wouldn't get off his back when he turned his form around half way through the season before we signed ozil and formed a solid partnership with Arteta and only really decided he was worthwhile last season when he was banging goals in. The fans where wrong about Ramsey and they where wrong in how they dealt with him and it negatively effected the club
Not on purpose but my posts clearly have that impact. I read these forums and see lots of double standards from many posters on both sides of the pro and anti Wenger sides (including me no doubt though I try and reign it in when I can if I notice myself doing it). I just see some posters get picked up on for certain things when actually, those picking them up do the same things in albeit slightly varied way. Any hey... who doesn't like heated debate. Talking placidly about football is boring. That's why have a Spurs-WUM thread. THat's why Spurs have a Liverpool-WUM thread. Everyone likes to get passionate and riled up and get their points across. if everyone agreed, life would be boring. Now if everyone could just agree that Wenger was rubbish and that we need to sack him ASAP that would be great
He did do well on a few occasions and nearly won a cup. His 2008 year team was one of the best not to win something. But I feel that he is lacking that edge that he once had against the very best. This is a different Wenger and Arsenal than what he was against Fergie in the early days. We always thought that we could win against the very best, but now we have grave doubts whenever he's up against Maureen, City or any top team. But of course, everyone is entitled to their opinions, this is after all a forum. We shouldn't get into slagging matches and abuse, something that seems to lead after Wenger discussions.
They weren't wrong about Ramsay. He was rubbish for years. Stop treating players like babies. If you're in a business and you under perform you should get put under review from your management. If you don't improve and can't deal with it then try something else.
I'm not trying to stop anyone's views. People can have whatever views they like and some of the posters on here have expressed anti wenger or negative sentiments in a well thought out and well constructed way. But there is an element of the forum who just act like right ****s with the way they do it and put no effort into contributing anything worthwhile to the forum. Then there's others who switch back and forth between the two. I'd think anyone who enjoys coming on here and being part of this online community would agree that we should try and improve the way people post, no?
And they will read comments like this and get riled up resulting in more posts which you deem as ****ish. But if people enjoy it (which we must assume they do other they wouldn't be here) then why change anything? Why do we need to improve the way some people post? because you don't like their posts? And how exactly? Forcing some arbitrary code on them made up by random faceless people on a forum?
They where wrong about Ramsey. He has brilliant as a youth prospect and clearly had talent. He was rated higher than wilshere prior to his injury. He came back from a horrific injury, with his leg broken in six separate places and was thrown straight into the team as a regular starter to replace fabregas and Nasri. He was under intense pressure at a time when he was recovering and most of the time he didn't play that badly. He wasn't great but wasn't nearly as poor as some made him out to be. And prior to his amazing season last time out he had started to drastically improve without getting any credit from the fans. Wenger stuck with him and that has resulted in Ramsey being amongst the very best in the league last season. All the fans did by giving him loads of **** was make him play worse. It was stupid. And if someone is under performing in a business it is often due to not being managed in the right way. Ramsey obviously needed a soft touch and faith put in him. If we'd dragged him in into a meeting and come down hard on him he may well not have achieved his potential and ended up moving on.
IMO afcftw has stated the reality of the situation very well. I look at the amount other teams have spent and finished poorly (think Liverpool under Hodgson, Spurs under Redknapp at the start of his reign and AVB, and Ramos, Man U under Moyes, Chelsea under Benitez and AVB, hell even Stoke outspent us). Also the teams who have suffered after a long term manager has gone, and they've plummeted down the league. Wenger managed to keep us competing against sides with resources vastly superior to us - FACT, Wenger is the only manager to win the league without spending huge amounts of money and breaking transfer records - FACT. He's made mistakes, is very frustrating, but is also one of the best managers out there. IMO it's worth giving him at least a season with a good financial clout before the knives come out - instead of after one game...
Mate, calm down. Your completely misreading where I am coming from. This forum has dropped in activity so obviously plenty of people haven't enjoyed how things go on this forum. And others who are still here I'm sure would prefer it if it was more active. Just because people are posting on here doesn't mean we can't make it more enjoyable for people to be here! It also has nothing to do with some wish to police people's comments. I've made my stance on censorship on the internet clear before on here. I think everyone should be able to contribute and have whatever views they want. But that doesn't mean we have to just accept things when they start going crappy, a bit of encouragement for people to think a bit more about there posts is hardly some evil plan to only have opinions I like on the forum lol I love a good argument as much as the next man! But when one set of views is generally put across in a really poor way it just causes disruption rather than debate. And I'm sure I've been guilty of getting involved in spats too often as well, so I'm attempting to take my own advice!
You mean Ramsey looked good, showed a lot of promise, got injured, was out for ages, then came back slowly as he recovered from his injury, including being sent on loan to Cardiff. While recovering he had fans booing him and saying he was a Championship player at best. Then when he's fully fit, he plays well, gets a ridiculous amount of plaudits, fans saying he's the best player ever, and would have won us the league single handedly if he hadn't been injured. And now he's not fully fit and not playing very well?
No I don't mean that but thanks for taking the time to type it anyway. I meant he was rubbish for ages. Sorry if that wasn't clear. This is his 7th season for us. Season 1 - sparingly used, did not a lot Season 2 - used a bit more, showing a bit of promise, leg broken half way through the season Season 3 - bit part, on loan at other clubs, makes few appearances for us Season 4 - full season, did not a lot Season 5 - full season, did not a lot Season 6 - brilliant 1st half of season, 2nd half injured Season 7 - mediocre start, now injured He's been a very good player for half a season. I get all this 'form is temporary, class is permanent' stuff... but at what point does mediocrity become your 'class' with flashes of brilliant becoming your 'form'? He is hopefully going to get back to being brilliant like he was last seasons for a bit (hopefully he will anyway, at some point). But how much mediocrity do you put up with in the hope of excellence? What ratio does there need to be (months mediocre:months brilliant) before you change your opinion? And stop with all the 'would have won the league if he'd been fit' nonsense. That's just age old 'ifs' and 'buts'. if he wasn't fit to start for us then why did he for two full seasons? He was poor, not average, but very poor... he chose to play in a profession where thousands of people pay a lot of money to sit there and watch you perform. If you can't deal with what they're going to say then don't choose to play football and let someone else earn £50k a week.
