I think we won it because we have a team of very good players and a manager who is satisfactory. And every now and then a very good team might win a trophy. A top team would be winning a trophy every season or two. We've won one in 10 years, the same as quite a few other teams. And it was hardly a demonstration of might in the way we won it beating neither of the two best teams in the country. Something occurring once is not evidence of a trend of progression. It's evidence that we have some very good players who can win a football match or two. It's evidence that we're a 3rd or 4th place team who never wins the league or CL and wins a cup every now and then.
They're not top teams. They're like us. Challenging to be the best of the rest. We should have higher expectations than to think they're top teams. We should expect to beat teams like that at home. City and Chelsea do.
I think it's a building block to develop on. Everybody knows the last 10 years has been really difficult and there have been tangible reasons for that. I don't think our club is without it's problems, far from it, but I prefer to look forward and see winning the FA cup as a positive thing, rather than a random fortunate event.
I'm not trying to convince you. I don't think they're top teams. Top teams win the league (or at least regularly challenge for it until the end of the season) and challenge for the champions league. Liverpool, Everton, Spurs, United, us... none of us do either of those. We're tier 2 clubs. City and Chelsea do. They're tier 1. And City and Chelsea expect to beat tier 2 teams at home. But you think they're all top teams so... so be it.
Liverpool were challenging for the title last season and finished 2nd. (Not everybody can finish top you know) Maybe we disagree with the definitions, but I would say that City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Utd are top teams and Everton, Spurs are in the 2nd tier
Absolutely spot on. The way our club is being run is looking increasingly like a Rolls Royce being driven by a rubbish truck driver. I said this in the wake of the 3-0 thrashing against Everton; that a top manager would do much better with these resources at his disposal. We really don't seem to change our approach from one game to the next. Let's face it, City deserved to win the other week, they really had us on the ropes towards the end of the game and hit the post twice as well as an offside goal that was tight. This reflects the outdated one-size-fits-all philosophy that Wenger still clings to: no adaptation to the realities on the pitch, no 'war of attrition' approach to make life hard for the opposition, just play our game regardless of the opposition or the changing circumstances in the match. I think the main thrust of Arsenal87's analysis is correct: there are no tangible signs of improvement in the team's performances despite the investment. Also, as Bodanki rightly says, there is no logical reason why the squad's weak spots were not strengthened and therefore our personnel problems are also the responsibility of Wenger. A hungry, top class manager would have busted a gut to bring in a DM and a better striker, as well as a suitable replacement for Vermaelen. We need to start thinking about life after Wenger. Personally I'd like to see us start next season with a different man at the helm.
Liverpool was a one-off. Many things happen as a one-off. City and Chelsea are miles ahead of any other team in the premier league. We are not in the same league as them. I think that is the crux of what is pi55ing off so many fans nowadays.
I wouldn't disagree with that. I'm hurting as much as everybody else seeing us not get anywhere near City and Chelsea. But you have to remember that they both have the most expensively assembled squads, so it stands to reason that they are always able to buy the best players. I'm not saying it's purely down to finances, but you can see how they both managed to propel themselves to the top.
I agree with some of it and disagree with other parts but I don't have the energy to go through it all and reply to all his points right now
Not trying to start an argument, but what do you disagree with? Everything I have said in that post is fact, not opinion. You do get far too many injuries, constantly, for it to be coincidental! There must be something wrong with the training regime. The fact that you hired a new fitness coach backs that up too. Wenger hasn't strengthened in the areas where your squad needed it most, that too is inarguable. The only point you could try to contest is his lack of tactical nous....but seriously? Look at your results against top teams in recent years, it's hard to argue against. I have heard people say "Oh he changed this in this game, or that in that game" but if so, those changes were negligible and usually through necessity of having a depleted squad, and not for any tactical brainwave he may have had. When was the last time you played a top team, were trailing, and Wenger turned it around with an inspired substitution or formation change. (You could point to the FA Cup final, but you shouldnt have been two down to Hull in the first place, and all respect to them, I would hardly call them a top team).
Lol that's a convenient way of looking at it....The only reason they did that was because we had our usual epic meltdown, from title challengers to battling for 4th, lol. Everton pushing us had more to do with us falling apart.
Like I said I can't be bothered to reply to your post (I've just written out a long thread), I might give it a go later. But I wanted to point out that the things you were saying aren't facts, they are opinions. No matter how much you believe them to be the truth they are all your interpretations of the situation, not fact.
Yeah, they played well. They challenged for 4th. Because they're a 2nd tier team. And a team that's nowhere near City and Chelsea. Like us. Which is what is irking quite a few fans.
We have played city twice this season, we beat them in the community shield and drew in the league and we are a point behind them. Personally I do think both city and Chelsea are ahead of us and I think that is to be expected given recent history. I think some fans are irked because they have unrealistic expectations.
I don't think it's unrealistic to expect a club with the resources Arsenal has to start the season with a more inspiring strike force than Wellbeck and Sanogo.
Well our striker options are: giroud, Welbeck, Sanogo, Walcott, podolski, Sanchez, Campbell. I'd imagine we have more players than most able to play as strikers. But for the record I hadn't said anything about transfers or our strike force etc... My comment was aimed at the people who go into overdrive emo mode every time something doesn't go our way.
And another note on Everton, they managed to beat us and Chelsea last season and went close to beating man city (they beat man city the prior season though). So whilst I don't think they are in the same category as some clubs above them, they are a top team who performed to a high standard last season and it was a good result putting them out of the fa cup.
