had nothing else to agree or disagree with! flat discussion on here is pretty rare these days, had more posts about lunch and golf I think
Ixelles Diamond 10/1 ew in the last at Epsom, rev fc with the Pricewise horse that Stick highlighted earlier
Not many Beresford winners end up in the winners circle at Newmarket..Sea The Stars the only one I can recall. Kingman is the best 3-y-o miler,no doubt...Kris lost in the Guineas and he was the best miler of his generation,and the next one. New Approach is mentioned as an unlucky Guineas winner but he was easily beaten NTO by HTN at the Curragh. I would expect Gleneagles to run in the Dewhurst as he looks the weakest of the Ballydoyle elite.
The National Stakes in the last 10 years has produced 3 2000 Guineas winners. In the same period the Dewhurst has produced 2 2000 Guineas winners. Not sure therefore Boris of your logic that the Dewhurst is 'the top 2 year old race of the year'...
Was looking at the previous winners Dex, Obriens winners are normally more Derby types, even St Nic turned out to be and they even won it with Septimus! What a stayer he was in 2008, thought he would dominate for a few years but was never seen again after the Melbourne Cup. Ol Man River obviously has plenty of speed, you need that to win the Derby, just ask Kingston Hill. Sir Isaac Newton still to run but I think Ol Man looks more of a Derby horse than JFK and he would be fav in my book just now. Whether hes a better horse than JFK, time will tell. Nice to see Elm Park looking like a potential Derby horse for someone other than Coolmore, nothing against them but the race is becoming a bit of farce with their monopoly, they could end up with half the field and the first 4 home next season.
With due respect Dex, on ground he should have never run on. Had it been softer than good I'm sure New Approach would have easily beaten HTN who loved a sound surface.
I would always think of the Dewhurst as the top 2 year old race of the season to be honest even if the recent stats, as you point out Beefy, don't back it up. For what it's worth Ol Man River has beaten group 2 and 3 horses today. He's clearly one of the best 5 2 year olds we've seen this season so he should have beaten them as he did. I would have him as a Derby contender more than the 2000. However, the way we've seen Coolmore prep their Derby horses nowadays I would assume he's highly likely to run in the 2000. Especially as they could do with him becoming a stallion. They'll be keen to get him in the mile race so they can go on about his unbelievable speed etc. Gleneagles is a grinder to my eye. He reminds me of Mastercraftsman. JFK - Rip Van Winkle. Ol Man River - could be anything.
Just meaning historically beef, the Dewhurst is the 2yo race for me and the best should be there, not saying it actually turns out to be the best race every year.
Great to see Alex Salmond there with the players. Darling and Brown must have retreated to their London lairs. Shameful boos from the crowd at the First Minister who presented the trophy...
Perhaps Ron but he was beaten in both Guineas by Henry and tbh any flat racer who needs a soft surface is always going to be compromised re credibilty.
The HTN v Ravens Pass year was the most exciting flat season I have ever seen. Purely down to the drama between those two. Absolutely loved it and would be delighted to get back into the flat game if there was something like that to watch.
Fantastic races with the latter gaining incrementally encounter by encounter. Redolent of the series that To-agori-mou and Kings Lake played out in the 80's.
New Approach didnt need soft ground, he just didnt like it too firm, plenty dont, and it couldnt be fast enough for Henry hence the easier beating in Ireland, he was also a middle distance horse taking on a top miler, was already crying out for a trip in the Dewhurst.
He was easily beaten by DOM over 10f and DOM is hardly mentioned in even the middle echelons of "Coolmore greats".
Wasnt the real New Approach Dex, first run back from injury after the Derby. Finished 1 1/2 in front of Pipedreamer who he slaughtered in the Champion. The Duke was a brilliant horse but he wouldnt have got near New Approach in the Champion. New Approach 2yo season gets him plenty for me, puts him above Australia who is apparently coolmores best ever.
Thanks Joe. Not sure why my comment was taken to mean he needed soft ground. I didn't mean to imply that. Merely stating the obvious that had HTN been running on ground he hated the result would have been completely different, although I imagine that HTN would not have run. For a horse needing further, to run top miler HTN so close in the 2000Gns was no disgrace at all. The Irish equivalent was meaningless on fast ground, ground that HTN loved. Thanks for the video.
Just getting lined up to watch The Bridge At Remagen - I trust you will approve of that one Dex Never heard so many excuses made for a horse as for New Approach oh the ground was too firm ............... oh HTN was a very good miler ..................... oh he was recovering from injury --> For reference, review Sea The Stars career. EOS.
