Off Topic Ranieri, Taylor, Drogs, Spy: KGB vs BI Game

Then vote for me!

But when it shows that I am MI5 I think people need to finally accept what I am saying that I have logically shown that Obi and DMW must be BI, and GBC's focus on DMW should be viewed very very suspiciously.

 

I switch my vote to Less Than

EDIT I don't really agree with switching theory though, I think DT is the safe move based on the voting pattern of Tash's killing

 

Less Than doesn't know for certainty that DMW is Lyalin. So if we vote him and he's MI5 it proves nothing about DMW other than he had Less Than convinced that he's BI.

I know I'm banging the drum on this one, I'm also fully aware I'm at risk of changing the vote to me by going down this road but I'm MI5. I was proven MI5 when I was killed last time because I brought this very theory to everyones attention.

 

If you hadn't died, ( I got better!) I would be happy to have gone with you but you did and you may now be KGB and DMW could have been subsequently "turned/converted".



Whose that in the shadows???

Come on out I know you're there!!

 

Both Tash and Obi have named DMW as. Lyalin. We know 100% that Tash was MI6.

You say that this is explained because DMW is Philby and therefore the KGB are using the Maclean on Philby every night, which is why both Tash and Obi have been told that DMW is Lyalin. On top of this you say that I am Maclean and it is me protecting DMW.

It is me who got the PM from Obi claiming that he is MI6, and me that is confirming that PM came to me before Tash declared he was MI6 and the results he has had.

Obi has claimed he was told I am MI5. He has also claimed that he was told that ACS was MI5 and that this must have been the Maclean (he told me this after ACS was killed and revealed as KGB). He also confirmed that Trev was MI5 and since then, on the thread, he confirmed that he was told Roland was MI5. Again, if the Maclean is in use on Philby every night then Obi must be lying and must be KGB. This would also explain why Obi is adamant that DMW is Lyalin.

However, if I am shown to be MI5 then it proves beyond all doubt that the Maclean is not being used on Philby every night as it would have been proven to have been used on me (when Tash was told I was Maclean). This negates what you say when explaining the miniscule chances that the KGB protected DMW on the two nights that MI6 investigated him but used it on me another night as well as ACS on another night.

It will prove the theory that you have that I am Maclean is false.

It will prove that the theory that DMW is Philby and protected by Maclean every night is false.

It will not prove beyond doubt that DMW and Obi are BI, but the odds will be stacked massively in their favour to being BI. The reason I am so convinvced is because if you accept that DMW is Lyalin then it follows that Obi is MI6, Trev is MI5 and Roland is MI5. If any of these players are shown to be other than this then they are all probably KGB. The direction the arguments have gone about DMW being protected every night put the odds of this being the case as unlikely though.

These are all arguments I put forward yesterday, but you want the discussion to be about DMW. I believe this is distracting us from investigating the right people.

I am MI5 and I am having to take one for the team just to prove that I am telling the truth about not being Maclean, so that this will also prove that the Maclean hasn't been used on Philby every night. You will be down at least one more player. The reason I am doing this is because you are forcing me to do this as the only way to prevent the risk of losing the only assets we have left.

This all seems like basic logic to me.

PS: it would be helpful to have the newspaper report from last night to know if only the two killings took place or if anything else took place too (like a protection), as we still have no idea if BTK was taken out by the KGB or friendly fire.

2nd Edit: Also, if you have come back as MI5 then it proves that all of the BI specials are actively playing or JPF would not have brought you back as MI5 (the alternative is that JPF would be torpedoing his own game as bringing back MI5 when MI6, Lyalin or Gordievsky were inactive would be fixing the game to a certain KGB win). So, we can assume they are active. If they are active then why are they not coming out and letting us know DMW or Obi is lying? Nothing fits about your theory. You are either mistaken or KGB.

 

We have an advantage here because I've come back from the dead. I wasn't looking at making this public knowledge because firstly it's not entirely within the spirit of the game and secondly because if I hadn't replaced an inactive player we (BI) wouldn't have this knowledge...

However, the night I was assassinated JPF PM'd me to inform me I was dead. He then said that I'd played the game well and was very close on my theory.

Read in to this what you will but it's one of the main reasons I've continued to focus on DMW.

 

Are you saying that before you were killed that you thought DMW was Philby?

 

I'm saying that before I was killed I didn't think he was Lyalin.

Since I was killed for targetting him I believe he's almost definitely KGB and in all likliness Philby.

 

If you weren't taking one for the team, who would you be voting for?

 

There are two ways to get me off this targetting of DMW. Either vote for him, he's saves himself (since BTK was almost definitely not killed in friendly fire) and proves me wrong. Or vote for me and lose another MI5 agent.

 

Previous voting.

Mr T - Pulp, BRS, Jim, MR t(?), and BTK

ACS - not for ACS - ACS, DPP,MMS and Pulp

For DMW - 1) Pulp, Rolando, Jim, BTK
2) nO-ONE
3) BRS
4) No-one
5) Rolando, GBS, Less Than

Lets look at the voting and non voting.

Suspicious to me from above - Pulp and Jim

The KGB aren't all active all the time. Quieter ones could be one or both of Pulp or/and Jim.

Suggest BI aim for one of these two?

 

Once again, sorry for the length of this. These are all of your posts in the lead up to the vote of you dying so that we can look at them without prejudice. granted the things you are replying to are not shown, but hopefully it helps.

I will read through them with an open mind. In the meantime, show me your thinking about the questions I keep raising. I am not raising them to muddy the waters - I believe they are genuine questions to consider before risking a potential Lyalin.

1. Why did both Tash and Obi claim to be MI6 and independently confirm DMW as BI?

2. Why would the Maclean be in place for DMW on both nights he was investigated, but in place for me when I was investigated and in place for ACS when he was investigated?

3. If DMW and Obi are not MI6 and Lyalin, then where are the real ones and why are they not speaking up? That would be suicidal game play from the 'real' players point of view.

4. If the above 'real' players are inactive why would JPF replace an inactive MI5 player and not a 'special' as he would surely know that would ruin the game and weight it so far in the KGB's favour as to make it pointless.

5. Why are you so convinced that 'if' DMW is Lyalin both he and Obi will be safe anyway?

6. Have I missed an obvious point that makes all of the above incorrect?

Edit:

7. Why are you so convinced that BTK (MI5) was killed by the KGb when your reason for suspecting DMW is because you think he thought you were a specialist and they wouldn't waste a kill on MI5?

The following post of mine was ignored and didn't get a reply. I have asked the questions in it a number of times and had no answers. If there are logical answers then address them. I AM listening...honest!

 

I am getting thoroughly confused.

I believe that yourself, Obi and DMW (and probably Roland) are closely linked and almost certainly all on the same side.

I personally have doubts about Roland (but I had doubts about MMS and BTK)

I would vote for either DT (voting patterns) or someone new - perhaps Jimmy. (guess).

 

I don't understand why we are not sticking to the plan of last night? Why are we not voting DT? If we were voting for GCB (who I now suspect strongly of coming back KGB) or Less Than's strategy, surely we had to do this last night?

The aim of the game is simple once you remove all the bluster, remove players. We removed MMS on the basis him or DT made sure Tash went with last minute voting. Neither bothered to save themself by declaring they were MI6 or Gordievsky (which they would have yesterday). We messed up with MMS but we are now going back to square one, changing strategy again and voting Less Than (who I think is MI5) or Jimi which is just a blind guess. Him and Pulp have been fairly quiet but we learn nothing from their death.

If we are switching plans I'd prefer to vote Less Than over GCB because I suspect GCB has come back KGB, but I think we are playing into their hands by constantly splitting votes and changing tactics. I'm not really bothered about dying at this stage, it is more important we locate a KGB member. Even if we vote DT and he is BI (which seems unlikely), surely all we do is look at the voting on Tash and use a process of elimination to pinpoint the real KGB?

I am going to tot up the numbers which are left as it crucial. I will work on the basis there are 4 or 5 KGB (5-ACS plus one possible convert)

 

I'm going to read through all of todays patter a bit later.


For now, another question for JPF:

If KGB were to use Maclean every night on the same player, would the lie given upon investigating said player result in the same false name being given as GCB believes has happened? From reading your rules I was of the impression that it was a random lie and would change each night that the Maclean 'power' was used, which would make it very unlikely that both Tash and Obi were given the same lie regarding DMWs identity on two separate nights. If this is the case then it would prove Obi is indeed MI6 if Less Hope is an honest MI5 member.

 

We started with 5 KGB and 18 BI.

We have lost one KGB (ACS) and 7 BI.

This leaves it as 11 to 4. However, they have probably converted/will convert one of us so that would make it 10/5.

When I am voted off tonight it will become 9/5 (Unless BTK was killed by friendly fire and it could even become 8/5 if they make a kill).

From that position KGB victory is virtually inevitable when you take into account that they can communicate and we would still be dealing with misdirection and guessing. With inactive players taken into account we could already be outnumbered for voting. Look how many are actually voting!

We desperately need people from BI to speak up and start contributing. We also need Gordievsky to act, but then how can he without direction?

 

I think its interesting that GBC was all over this thread and ignored my questions. When I re-posted them so that it would be too obvious to ignore them he disappeared. Might well be an innocent explanation, but it looks a bit Suss to me.

 

I'm in work mate and it's last Friday of the month so crazy busy today

In answer to your questions:

1. If Maclean was used on DMW both times they enquired (far from impossible) then they'd both have been told DMW is Lyalin.
2. If you're Maclean, it wouldn't have been in place on you. When it become clear we suspected ACS of being KGB you could have used it on ACS to protect him, thereafter you could have had a group discussion to protect your most valuable player (DMW).
3. Why would the real Lyalin and MI6 agent speak up when they're our last two big hitters? They be taken out and we'd lose. The fact Obi and DMW haven't been voted for and/or assasinated only adds weight to the fact they're KGB.
4. The above players aren't definitely inactive, that's just an assumption you've made out of nowhere, it's much more likely that they're probably keeping their cover (and rightly so) so that they don't get killed and/or assasinated as they realise how valuable they're to BI.
5. I'm convinced that DMW will be safe if he's Lyalin because he can protect himself. It makes absolutely no sense that BI assasinated BTK given the lack of intel we had on him (only intel was that he voted for Tash which is weak at best).
6. You haven't missed an obvious clue, all of the above is very logical and also prettly likely IMO. You're just trying to throw other players off the scent.
7. They killed BTK because he chose to follow/believe my theory. If they'd have killed me for a second night running it would only have added weight (and plenty of it) to my theory. By killing him they've reduced the threat to DMW as the other BI memebers are yet to be fully convinced by my theory (something I hope will change following these answers).

 

Virtually all of these rely on me being not only KGB, but being Maclean like Tash said.
You keep insisting that if I am MI5 your theory holds up. So - how would you answer the above (hypothetically) if you find out I am MI5 (which I am)

Edit: Actually, re-reading these answers you are mixing and matching. In some you are saying Obi would be MI6 and in others you are saying he'd be KGB.

ACS was investigated on the 2nd night before we suspected him.

DMW was outed by Tash by mistake - who we know was MI6

Obi was outed by me when I suspected his 'illegal' PM'ing of making him KGB.

They did not out themselves.

There is no reason at this stage when the numbers are so much against us for the real MI6 agent at least not to speak up and prove Obi is lying. In fact it would be imperative that he did otherwise he is useless if his investigation results are not shared with us at this stage.

We have no way of being certain that BTK was killed by the KGB. To vote for DMW would expose us to massive risk.

At this stage - if others would join me. I would change my vote to kill off GCB. (I'm not - yet - as I think we might learn more from knowing for sure that I am MI5)

 

So now I've answered your questions you're asking me to answer more based on a potentially hypothetical scenario. Maclean is a very clever card to have, after ACS went there were only four KGB left. It means that every night there's a 1 in 4 chance that the player our MI6 investigates is protected, that's quite high. How do we know that Tash and Obi didn't both investigate DMW on the same night?