1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

OT: Do you think Scotland Independence is good for United kingdom?.

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by LuisDiazgamechanger, Sep 9, 2014.

?

Good for Scottland to leave the Union?

Poll closed Sep 29, 2014.
  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    21.3%
  2. No

    37 vote(s)
    78.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    16,635
    Likes Received:
    3,931
    Labour have come out and said they don't want devolution of power. The Tories are saying they support devolution across the uk.

    If anything it's another nail in labours coffin and a great success for the Tories.
     
    #861
  2. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    16,635
    Likes Received:
    3,931
    So if the vote is split and there is no clear winner in an election how do you think we should decide democratically who is in government? Continue to re-vote over and over until over 50% agree? In general there are lots of people who don't get the government they want. Unfortunately that's just the way it is.
     
    #862
  3. jenners04

    jenners04 I must not post porn!

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    15,143
    Likes Received:
    4,582
    would that be because most councils are torrie/lib ones?
     
    #863
  4. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    16,635
    Likes Received:
    3,931
    The Tories would benefit more than labour under devolution because labour benefit a lot from the Scottish vote siding with them. Good point on the councils too. With devolution the Tories would gain and labour lose. So it's obvious they are just going by self preservation rather than any will to actually do what is right.

    But the Tories have fallen on the people's side and labour on the elitist side.
     
    #864
  5. Foredeckdave

    Foredeckdave Music Thread Manager

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    19,804
    Likes Received:
    132
    That's only because you don't listen/read! Labour have said that they wish to set up a Commission after the next election. That's totally different from being anti-devolution.

    Now I believe that Labour's present stance is just a holding position whilst this whole thing sorts itself out. Starting to consider devolution after the next election is not really viable - Cameron will ensure that and so will the regional activists.
     
    #865
  6. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    16,635
    Likes Received:
    3,931
    I've been reading the bbc article this morning and there are quotes from milliband and labour basically saying they want to keep the status quo and don't see the need for English devolution...
     
    #866
  7. carlthejackal

    carlthejackal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2012
    Messages:
    5,840
    Likes Received:
    1,715
    The way to go seems to me is regional government in England. Scotland has a population of around 5m plus. Wales has 3m. The devolved regions could have similar populations 5-10m which would give around 8-6 regional governments.

    It would be crazy to have a single English parliament. The difference between the north east of England and London/South East is almost the same as the difference between Scotland and these 2 areas.
     
    #867
  8. Foredeckdave

    Foredeckdave Music Thread Manager

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    19,804
    Likes Received:
    132
    For goodness sake! Don't rely purely on unattributable BBC articles for accuracy. Milliband has already presented Labour's present position of a Convention following the 2015 election. The ONLY thing that they have said must not happen is linking English devolution to the Scottish pledges.

    There's no problem in changing the English system for Labour - not changing it causes them more problems!!!
     
    #868
  9. Foredeckdave

    Foredeckdave Music Thread Manager

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    19,804
    Likes Received:
    132
    I don't think that regionalisation would be the best way of re-structuring English politics. Apart from maybe London and the South East, there is not one truly cohesive region in the UK and too many vested-interest problems. The nearest that I would go with that idea is to re-generate the larger administrative areas eg Merseyside and devolve power down to them from an English Parliament. Whilst far from perfect it would mean that representation would be more equal and local issues/policies can be implemented. That would truly make England a federal country.
     
    #869
  10. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    16,635
    Likes Received:
    3,931
    Ed milliband saying there is "no case" to deny 16 and 17 year olds the vote in future elections..
     
    #870

  11. Foredeckdave

    Foredeckdave Music Thread Manager

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    19,804
    Likes Received:
    132
    I don't agree with him but I'd like to hear your 'case' for denying them the vote after the experience of Scotland.
     
    #871
  12. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    16,635
    Likes Received:
    3,931
    I don't think at that age the vast majority of people are knowledgable enough, don't have the life experiences to understand the reasoning behind things etc... I do agree with young people being involved in politics and I'm a big fan of a youth government which is able to put forward motions to the actual government. But I think allowing them to vote in normal elections before they've worked a job, got a driving license, dealt with banks etc... Is a little too early.
     
    #872
  13. jenners04

    jenners04 I must not post porn!

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    15,143
    Likes Received:
    4,582
    so they are old enough to have an opinion on which party gets in which may effect, ours not theirs, interest rates, mortgages etc, yet they cant go to the shop for me and get my cigs <laugh>
     
    #873
  14. Jeremy Hillary Boob

    Jeremy Hillary Boob GC Thread Terminator

    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
    Messages:
    27,580
    Likes Received:
    14,526
    This 'Labour denying English voice' crap is the ship being sailed by the Torygraph and Fail at the moment, almost being dictated to them down the line by Lynton Crosbie. Funny how Cameron stood up after the referendum and said 'We hear you scotland', then promptly went back to the grubby pointscoring that a majority of Scots voters, even those who voted NO, had said that they're heartedly sick of. FFS, the Express are trying to say that it was Cameron and his grovelling 'Please don't leave the Uk because of us nasty Tories' speech that saved the Union. Gordon Brown is back to being the **** who single-handedly caused the worldwide 2008 crash, apparently.

    Sad thing is a lot of embittered Nats are falling into this trap too, if any of the vox pops I've being listening to on 5 Live are anything to go by. There'll be an unholy alliance between the Tories and the Nats in the next Parliament, a-la the one that forced through the vote of no confidence in the Callaghan government in '79, wait and see. people don't realise that all this 'social justice' left wing stance is a cloak of convenience that the Nats have been wearing the last decade, and that their DNA is more Tory than the Libs. If there is a Labour wipeout and a Nat stranglehold on 50-odd Scots seats next May, don't be surprised if Crosbie hasn't already worked out their next coalition partners.
     
    #874
  15. Foredeckdave

    Foredeckdave Music Thread Manager

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    19,804
    Likes Received:
    132
    DD you nailed it!
     
    #875
  16. LuisDiazgamechanger

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    38,594
    Likes Received:
    7,297
    Andy Murray on referendum: 'I don't regret giving an opinion'
    23 September 2014 Last updated at 09:24 BST

    Andy Murray has spoken publicly for the first time about comments he made on the eve of the Scottish referendum.

    Murray was abused on Twitter for tweeting his support for independence.

    In a BBC interview in China, he said the UK was going to be stronger as a result of the referendum and he looked forward to competing for Great Britain for the rest of his career.

    He said he did not "regret giving an opinion" but he wished he had not done it in that way.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29323322
     
    #876
  17. Jeremy Hillary Boob

    Jeremy Hillary Boob GC Thread Terminator

    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
    Messages:
    27,580
    Likes Received:
    14,526
    Why? He's entitled to his opinion. I don't live in the Shetlands, but I'll fully support their push for Crown Dependency status when they break away from Scotland.
     
    #877
  18. Red Hadron Collider

    Red Hadron Collider The Hammerhead

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    57,478
    Likes Received:
    9,839
    Where do you think the HQ of the North West regional government would be based? <yikes>
     
    #878
  19. Was his opinion yes or no?
     
    #879
  20. LuisDiazgamechanger

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    38,594
    Likes Received:
    7,297
    Soon there would be ethnic cleansing......
     
    #880

Share This Page