But that's a cost of living issue, part of a much bigger issue. Cost of living is effecting other industries too, but like Raw said about the smoking ban, Pubs were closing long before the cost of living crisis. Weather-spoons, Lloyds and Sam Smiths always have customers, they always have affordable beers, they'll be the last go out of business because they can give their customers cheep booze.
Wow never knew you knew 80% of non smokers Reg and you claim what I said wasn't true. You can reel out as many figures as you want mate they are all based on guess work not facts. Before the smoking ban and now I'm talking facts, as I was there! Pubs down Hylton Road were all bouncing most of the time you would struggle to get to the bar in some of them. Pubs like the Gardeners were stowed out most nights included in the crowd was me and 10 or 12 mates. Steels Club had queues outside waiting to get in. Last time I was in Steels there was more staff than customers. After the smoking ban slowly but surely trade dropped off, until as now The Gardeners is shut and other pubs struggle to get by. Drive down Hylton Road on an afternoon and notice every pub has lots of people standing outside smoking. But hey at least some pubs have cattle areas to shove us smoking pariahs. Give pub managers choice, not legislation. Every licensee I have ever met (and it's a lot ) says exactly the same as myself, the smoking ban was the beginning of the end.
I still will argue that Hylton Rd and clubs such as Steels were in decline long before the smoking ban. My figure of only 20% of the population smoking is based on official research. My comment regarding the majority of the 80% of non smokers being delighted about the smoking ban was purely an opinion...
Opinions eh? It's my opinion people lie about smoking when asked by officialdom as it increases insurance premiums etc. Some people even lie to their doctors about not smoking. And no I'm not denying smoking has decreased a lot over the recent years. I also read somewhere that it was on the increase in young people in certain areas. All I am asking for is choice! The ban was instigated by zealots who lied about the smoking facts. But we have been down this route before haven't we Reg? I would love them to give smoking pubs a trial somewhere. (Preferably just around the corner to me. )
I think it's a combination of things that's been building up for years. Cheap supermarket booze offered a straight choice of drinking cheaply at home or going to the pub with your mates. Then the smoking ban meant you could drink cheaply at home or go to the pub where half your mates wouldn't be anyway. The landlords, in fairness, did try to erect decent smoking areas outside, as MrRaw says. But now I know two or three smokers who won't go to the pub at all because they can't get a seat in these areas for non-smokers sitting outside with their mates, especially in summer! Add to that the yob culture where you can't hear yourself think for guys shouting their mouths off and acting like they own the place, and it's been one nail after another in the coffin. The fact is, the British pub has over the years become a less pleasant, devisive, and over expensive place to be. A lot of people who would traditionally have gone to the pub, now go to a restaurant, eat and drink there with friends, and then go home together to top it off.
Was going to mention that too Relic mate. When I start rambling about things I'm passionate about even I bore myself with lengthy posts. People claim that it was other people smoking that stopped them going in pubs, yet I have been in smoking areas in country pubs where you can't get stirred and the pub is empty. Although a lot of the people were smoking, they were there with just as many others that weren't. I really can't see why anyone would have a problem with certain pubs being "smokers" ! To stop anybody moaning the law could be that only presently closed pubs could be turned to "smokers". Because you would guarantee a half pint drinking non smoker would whine if his local was allowed smoking.
The real tragedy, for me, is that much of British culture was based around the pub. The 'local' was involved in everything from sports teams & social clubs to charity events & social gatherings. People had a pride in 'their' pub and many neighbourhood issues were talked through. The villages we drive through have lost their soul and people just don't meet up the way they used to. With the way people move around these days those villages will eventually be inhabited by people who barely know each other.
Spot on mate. i grew up in a pub and the smoking ban was the nail in the coffin for us and many nightclubs. Who wants to goto a bar where smokers were bannished and treated like outcasts? Whilst going to a club meant an enclosed room that smelt of puke and BO. Whilst i agree with the smoking ban idea, i dont think it should have been extended to the beer gardens. the inflated cost of rents and beers also didnt help
I don't think it's a clear-cut smokers/non-smokers issue really. I know some non-smokers who don't enjoy the pubs as much as they did because they say at times they're left sitting at the bar while two or three others are outside, and you can't get a decent conversation/laugh going any more. I also know one female anti-smoking fanatic who has stopped going into them altogether because she reckons the stink of sweat in them now is worse than the ***s were! I don't see it as an us versus them thing. The whole pub atmosphere has gone sour. It's just easier and cheaper to invite a few mates round to the house, whether you smoke or don't smoke is the householders choice to make. (Funnily enough, I know one couple who don't like you smoking in their house ... unless it's a spliff, and then they partake too!)
Weather-spoons is not always the cheapest, people go there because of the brand. You also don't see many spoons outside the town centre.
It's often said that people get the product they deserve ......... if the X-Factor is the very best they aspire to then **** them.
It's a shame what has happened to so many village pubs mate, there's just barely any money in them any more especially the ones owned by breweries leasehold. Having said that, Cheshire is thriving in terms of local pubs and pub/restaurants. I've only recently moved down there, but a 5 minute drive in any direction and I end up coming across a load of them. They charge about £9 a pint mind, if you're thirsty you best empty your ISA.
Yep....its been a combination of things! Probably in this order but all are contributing..... More people are still skint due to the crash a few years back. Cheaper supermarket booze resulting in people inviting others to houses instead of meeting in pubs. Maybe late on when the nightclubs open is when people venture out. Smoking ban. I'm a non smoker but was not in favour of the smoking ban as such. It was up to me whether to risk the effects of passive smoking. You go to a pub? What do you expect? All It means now is that farts and sweat smell stronger. However 2 things I don't miss are the burn holes in my new clothes from fellow revellers and the smoky smell of my night before t-shirt when taking it off in the first thing in the morning. It used to make me retch! I do agree that a certain percentage of pubs should have a smoking license and its up to the public and workers whether they would want to be there or not! A village with two pubs? One should be for smokers the other for non smokers. Atmosphere in pubs on the decline. To stay open pubs now seem to be in the position where they need to rip the guts out the old fashioned traditional aspect and replace it with that modern restaurant/pub wooden floored mundane family orientated design. Pubs don't seem to be as 'cosy' as they used to be. You don't fancy hanging around for very long.
They don't make them like the Lamb & Flag anymore do they mate? Good point about the cheap supermarket booze as well, I'd sooner drink with my mates indoors than line the pockets of the taxman by paying £4.45 a pint down my local.
Going to pubs, along the way, for away matches used to part of the fun. Walking into a Norfolk/Yorkshire/Hampshire pub would usually involve a bit of football banter, local gossip & harmless piss taking about accents. These days it's often a 'will you be dining with us today' greeting from some over-trained blank faced Romanian lass who doesn't really know, or care, what part of the country she's in ......... asking for any local knowledge, or directions, is met with a shrug and a mumble. We never eat at pubs with plastic coated menus and 'stand here until we tell you where to sit' boards ........ it's just a totally soulless experience. As you say, 'cosy' is what it isn't.
The swanky looking plastic coated menus with pictures of the meals on it!? I know what you mean. The quality ends up being poor.......frozen chips......'fast' pub food really, with no character! It seems to be the rule that the scruffier and more worn the menu is the nicer the food ends up being!
That's the truth! The best are the hand written blackboards with unintentional local accent-based spelling mistakes.
And I think you are right, the smokers were a menace, especially where food was being served, nothing like the taste of someones expelled nicotine to enhance your food and drink
