OT: Mafia game thread starts Sunday 8pm 14/9/14

So:

Stats and PHACKTS form your games master.

While you all thought you knew loads I was watchnig the antics.

Game set up:

You all focused on the snitch role. In fact not one single time did the snitch actually get applied. not even close. the intent of the role is to prvent an early lucky hit on the don. thats all.

The vigilante roll was a pity. Magic was unfortunate and thats life. you all saw what occured with sky. that was really bad thing to happen but nobody asked magic did they?

The intent of the Vigilante is to kill someone off... I gave 2 kills to speed the game up as i felt whoever got it was bound to use one early and knock off an innocent perhaps. I didn't want the game running into weekend if i could avoid.

The doctor role never hit anyone, it did become critical late on... and read the last day for why. It might feel crappy but the role was there fro a reason. the last game and this the town cop shouted out who he was. he should have been dead IMO the moment he did. however i felt it'd happen so i added doctor role to at least get another day out of it.




Day 1:


Astro was snitch. he set up to protect IBWT. there was no investigation
IBWT messaged me as i did send ALL reminded that he was taking no action
Lucaas investigated billy, he was innocent
Danilo investigated Lucaas and found he was mafia PI.... KEY POINT IN GAME. THIS CHANGE WAS LAST MINUTE AND AS A RESLUT OF SOME COMMENTS LATE IN ROUND.
Sky investigated hash
Gerrez was dr protected himself as you lot focused on him
Magic did nothing as vigilante

In day one there were mass votings. Nozzer managed to vote for 6 different people none of which were mafia at all. In fact only two early votes hit mafia, one from Danilo on IBWT whihc stuck all day and RHC singled out minxy cos he's a dirty old man. Late on minxy actually voted for astro. that only two mafia were on the voting table at the end. one put there by mafia

36 votes from 15 people meant actually the mafia voted late, only once.. IBWT for bodanki, Astro form minxy and aside from that Danilo stuck. everyone else changed votes

Gerrez and rHC attracted votes for no reason at all, in fact the reasons were terrible reasons frankly. I was thinking there was absolutely no logic being applied whatsoever day one.

The actions were affected by magic not turning up. He was vigilante and i messaged several times. **** happens

Day 2


Astro was snitch. he set up to protect astro. there was no investigation. all early action was on astro
IBWT had kill sky down but the was the voting went he changed at last minute to hash, stating he had a plan... I interpreted as sewing doubt as to skys role.
Lucaas investigated no-one. he voted early and never came on. I didn't see a single one of you notice this.
Danilo investigated milk
Sky investigated bodanki but actually had ibwt down until an hour before deadline. This was a crucial change. Again by chatter.
Gerrez was dr protecting sky. had ibwt left his action this would have been crucial again and ruined the sky is mafia approach. This could have blown the game wide open
Magic voted to kill sky then changed to kill astro.... the lynch saved the mafia a team member.


SO to sum up.... the mafia didn't know it but they got out of round two by the skin of their teeth.... yes not doing anything day one fingers magic but the townsfolk were really silly lynching a person for not being on...

I still do not know why danilo knowing who was mafia didn't try to at least push lucaaas' name out.

the votes were:

Ealry focus on astro due to mad vote. everyone piled on so early that night that it seems to me you all forgot and went abotu changing... Hash and milk choose afcftw and it was LUCAAS that first voted for magic nobody picked up on this at all and bascially gerrez voted fro him, then ASTRO as mafia joined in the vote and then later billy and sky completed the damaged.

In short i feel the mafia choose magic and you guys never saw it happening. IBWT could even vote afcftw then astro to distance form any suspicion.

By the end of the day you lynched a second townie and neve rput a mafia at risk


Day 3:

Actions first:

IBWT voted late to convert danilo
Astro voted to snitch IBWT - no need
Danilo did investigate gerrez
Sky as cop did nothing due to that dog...
Gerrez protected himself

THe key to the day is this:

The town had 4 town people on my table, not one mafia. I felt You ALL focused too much on the table to decide who to vote for. the mafia were sitting back and NOBODY was putting a mafia name up or even trying to change the table

Danilo spoke up late and frnakly I was amazed that everyone piled onto Lucaas as not one of you had a clue he was mafia really but you all seemed to just take it as read.

I must say if a mafia had done it you lot would have killd an innocent... think about that.

Danilo came out with evidence from the previosu day he'd done nothing with and cos he said milk was inncoent you all piled in behind milk

rememebr milk voted sky (town cop) then bodanki, then afcftw during the day all of which were innocent

I don't know why danilo voted nozzer first then switched to lucaas rather than putting lucaas up. perhaps it was to avoid mafia attention

at 7pm everything was going mafia way and had the got an innocent lynch and a kill/convert done the town was doomed.

It was the belief in danilo to lynch someone who'd done nothing suspicious that turned the game....

IBWT was on afcftw during the daytime, then bod, then i felt thsi is where he gave the game away he voted danilo then switched to lucaas

Remember that at 7pm the mafia knew who everyone was (gerrez admitted, sky admitted, danilo admitted then) and had a townie up to be lynched and ALL suspects were townies.

If danilo left it another day the game was over. If the mafia had simply let the nuts voting go they might still have won though... It was a set back but not unworkable.


Day 4

this day was all about the night before and EVERYONE was admitting roles.

Early on the focus was once more billy and then the two investigators.

roles:

IBWT voted to kill nozzer
Astro nsithced on ibwt - no need again
Danilo became mafia so no action possible
Sky chose minxy to investigate
Gerrez chose to protect danilo


So I read as the day went on more and more attraction to IBWT. Frankly milk had enough info to put the thing down to 6 poeple left who could be mafia so inevitably the mafia were in the number

HOWEVER.... Sorry IBWt but you kind of talked yourself into it. Had you been quieter or less eager to finger someone the town would have gone for billy... you'd have got your kill and as all actions were used it was urely then down to the votes. Agian killing sky could have won it.

BAsically I knew from day 3 bodanki has some suspect and i was watching and waiting but he didn't come on. I think Bod got the whole if you do something do it late motto

Day 4 bascially had a massive tie vote.

I want you guys to know that i actually set up at 6:30pm and ran the split vote cos nobody seems ready to change AND BILLY would have been lynched.

Think on that.


If bod had have voted early then it would not have happened. Had IBWT not tried to get more voted he'd have hidden away.

The game flpped when there was an odd number of votes and 6/5 meant all mafia were on one side with billy who'd left for day and town on the other.

I felt that in trying to deny milk IBWT made himself too obvious a mafia. In fairness milk had no clues who was who still and was setting up ties.

HOWEVER has sky been able to get his investigate in i think he'd have turned the game as well so that was lucky for mafia.

 

sorry lads but you all scattergunned day one. like i said billy? he just got under your skin.. nozzer voted 6 times managing to flip betwee nyou and gerrez, then bodanki... but nobody seemed to go for him!

Billy in round one voted RHC then gereez and only attraced you cos he voted in the middle of the pack.

my stats show what would have happened if you lot hadn't copped on!

on day 2 billy voted VERY late just like many of you did he single voted for magic and the rest really had no better idea

you missed who first voted for magic.... that info was available if you looked

 

In fairness the late vote was a crazy move.... and frnakly what happened day 2 was shocking... I am sorry all but how you let astro off totally and ended up removing him at one poitn from the entire table i do not know. YOu allowed IBWT be the only vote on him at that point

Again. I would have thought SOMEONE would have looked back at that and thought if he was that obvious how was he not considered at the end and the name voting didn't raise questions

 

Why was it crazy? Because people are too stupid to realise that it actually didnt make sense if I were Mafia? Maybe... but it was my system I have argued since the very start (and will argue the next game too )

My vote had NOTHING to do with me being mafia so people thinking I was mafia becasue of it WERE stupid

 

That first day move- reeked of Mafia... I was convinced you were Mafia for a while after that... a townie would never be so sure of who to remove to risk a last second vote like that- only a Mafioso trying to save someone would. If it weren't for the fact you were new to the game I would have been after you till cleared by cop or dead...

Yeah, I agree Nozzer would have been the best kill last night.

I figured towards the end your fight looked like a townie scuffle... What worried me about you Billy (and to a lesser degree Nozzer and IBWT) is early on you looked TOOOO clean. I didn't think you or AFC could be Mafia though- because you just kept on after the same person (each other)- that looked more like townie-vs-townie to me. Mafia wouldn't be so determined to remove just one individual usually.

No... not really... I was still thinking the Bodanki triangle... Astro-Bod-AFC. I never had any certainty with that, but it looked the best explanation possible. Bothered me that Sky looked innocent though.

I quite liked Gerrez's idea to split the vote, so I agreed with it... because logically- Lucaaas was almost certainly guilty... everyone coming out ensured we knew who was telling the truth... so Lucaaas had to be guilty- I hoped you would all jump on saving him if you thought there was the chance of him being saved... and you did.

Actually, I thought you would try saving him- then when it wasn't possible you'd switch over to Lucaaas to hide your guilt... only IBWT and Minxy did that... but there was enough delay it was obvious- and you only switched when it was beyond doubt... Minxy even removed her vote. Hesitating and not switching immediately to Lucaaas when it was logically almost certain he was guilty was the only wrong move you made until that point. Should have sacrificed him!

He went for AFC... they couldn't vote for me because that would have made it obvious when I was innocent. (I made a big deal about that so that if they did- afterwards I hoped everyone would listen to what I said).

 

I already said lucaaas was mafia before danilo came out with the info, that was based on his votes and a couple of comments he made early on. He wasn't one of my main targets and he was quiet, no-one seemed to get on board when he was suggested (bar Bodanki).

 

Keeping quiet wouldn't have helped. No coincidence that milk had voted for the 4 people that got lynched. Not saying it's his fault but people listen to him and follow his votes, prob cos he's played before and they did it either consciously or subconsciously.

If I didn't argue my innocence he had me pointed out as guilty and people would have voted for me.

It's good summery mito, could be shortened to when danilo outed Lucaaas game was over as we reacted badly to it.

 

At this point in game it was 4 to 7... IF you'd got billy killed and then nozzer... (you put to much store in DR to protect town) it could have been 4/6 and while the town would have known exactly who was who you had sky investigating minxy.

In the end I think the mafia would have lost from here as bod and milk had it pegged and i think gerrez would have eventually ogne along with it.

The best action IMO after killing hash was to finger milk for it. the voting was crazy and activity was seen as guilt IMO. Honestly bar minxy who just attracted you guys like bees round honey (ok sweetness) the people sitting back we not being killed and the mob was taking itself apart.

the most dangerous people day 2 and on were milk and bod.. Milk cos he was trying to find you even though he was too focused on chatters and bod who'd bascially said what he was up to. Sky was perfect for conversion.


Hell i even set u the game so conversion could not be blocked if an investigator revealed himself but added a second investigator quite late as i was worried a walkover might occur.


I hope you guys now see why the snitch role was in there... it just added some confusion but the odds were a) 1 in 4 in mafia and then 1/14 of hitting the snitch... so early on unless you hit the don you were likely not to get a false answer AND this was designed deliberately to stop a lucky hit ending the game.

As the game actually went on it was designed to be crucial as the hunt got closer and closer.

The vigilante was disappointing as I felt it could add real color to the reports and a wild card... BUt thats the way it goes.

 

Fake rep Gonna give this a good read.

What I will say in the defense of all newcomers is that's it's a whole shed load to think about first day, when even the experienced players can't help much other than tactics advice. When you're getting different tactics advice from those who've played before it made the first day difficult to fathom. Despite being mafia, Astro's advice to flat bet across the board seems a tactic worth trying next time around. Probably the only way to pressure mafia unless someone lets slip a blunder or anyone came out first round (unlikely as then an easy target).

 

I brought you to attention. I was shocked mate that everyone dropped you the next morning.... its not about system its about the risk... if someone latched onto you due to the things like late votes = mafia advice you'd not shake them.

You got lucky they dropped oyu.

 

Milk I take a morale win in the fact I had you fooled by all my actions as don

 

If Astro were an experienced player I would never have let him go for that. I figured he (like AFC) were new and just doing crazy stuff. Numerically, Mafia had better odds of winning the game (5 potential mafia is above the square root, the usual balance point of 1 team mafia, of 15 townies)- town having two cops and a doctor (3 strong town roles) balanced things though.

I was certain Astro was guilty at first.

 

in fairness you voted a lot for a lot of people so if you did have it you never pushed it hard. day two you voted astro, sky boadanki and on day 3 you were on milk then billy... i recorded every vote.....

lesson is if you suspect apply pressure with a vote I guess.

 

Then you are one of the idiots who didn't understand the vote was not late as I called it 3.5 hours in advance. My action didn't help any mafia as none were up for vote.

 

In short... yes but.... you did change what you were doing. earlier you were a bit quieter and you were pushing a im confused line too much and i felt that first tipping him to vote for you


In short you could not see bodanki coming really but had you played a bit less with the whole way you were going then I think there was enough sillyness going on to keep billy and milk under focus and you might have at least been ited.

i felt trying to get people to join up on milk tipped most to you.

If you'd just played straight, not confused they might not have suspected so much... but they should confirm it..

as i knew who everyone was i could see the changes instantly


....................

the summary is important as I wanted everyone to see that actually there were two or even three turning points. danilo got some idea day one last minute to investigate lucaas then di nothing with it.... I am not sure why this occured. you mafia got lucky day two as the don was not snitched and sky switched off you.... it was again an hour to go.

again you HAD kill sky and gerrez was protecting. that could have made a totally different game. that was a good move to kill hash. I felt myself that you could have done for milk that day if you'd fingered him for it.... there was a mood that day that milk could be guilty and ti would have taken little for them to lynch...

and yes danilo flipped the game.... why everyone piled on with so little evidence and a tie was not done i don't know but again crazy voting, right but crazy as danilo really has questions to answer but sky was grilled more

 

Lucaaas knew I was innocent from day 1 the complete and utter mother f*ck*ng, sh*t* for brains, c*ck sucking, *ss munching, dirty, low-down, mafia pile of steaming t*rd F*ck you Lucaaas, you're getting the bullet next time I'm the Don

#billysrevenge

[video=youtube;v5NeyI4-fdI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5NeyI4-fdI[/video]

 

I would have left you alone and move to the next people in my list Astro, and Minxy, if I could get you to come up with a logical alternate theory of who is guilty as that would have made you look town. As it was you looked like you were just trying to save yourself without saying something that would help town.

I have no problem with the snitch role... I think a variety of roles helps keep the game fresh and rotating through roles helps... coming up with new roles is always interesting... and I know when hosting, it helps keep the host interested when you come up with new ways to twist things.




Incidentally, your comment about we shouldn't have trusted Danilo. At first I didn't. Not until Minxy said that she had no town role. At that point- everyone had responded... and it was possible someone had said they had no role that had a role- but figured they would speak up if not. (I was counting on them to do so).

Logically, until someone spoke up- with two cops known and no one disputing them- I had to trust Danilo to be telling the truth... plus as I explained at the time- we HAD to hit Mafia- and I wasn't sure on anyone and the town didn't seem to be sure of anyone... we had no clues... we had to trust Danilo or Mafia would win.

Even if Danilo had lied- we WOULD have known 1 Mafioso for the next day (Danilo) - and so could have survived that day if we all voted together.

Trusing Danilo was the right thing to do- because with everyone declared as townie except those who weren't- he had to be trusted.



Incidentally, wouldn't normally think we should all throw cards on the table like that most games... but it was obvious to me it was a do or die moment for the town... and it looks like that was a correct observation... we would have voted off two more townies otherwise.

 

Last minute votes, trying to sneak one in under the radar without town being able to react (unless someone in town is sure of who is guilty) is almost always Mafia... especially in the first few days.

Last minute votes look like "strategy"- which in day 1 is only going to be Mafia.


Besides- you took the tie from being a 2-way between Bod and RHC to a tie between Gerrez and RHC... you didn't follow your strategy- you just switched who was in the tie. That's what made it look suspicious.

 

I think forming opinion on the first day is dangerous.

I do feel strongly holding back actions is risky as come day 3 the noose tightness enough to make it hard to use...

I think this one had a special case that ibwt exploited well. Actually had magic not turned in i was going to contact a townie and assign the role to them with one kill only but when he did i let it roll.


I feel the flat bet across all simply silly as it means nobody need put themselves out there if you have any balls as mafia. Day one is really about getting the first investigations and actions in and someone getting killed.

The tactic milk suggested is decent as if you get 3/4 people up there tied at least you can see if someone flinches.



My view however is the FACTS were not considered as much as the talking. The strategy the mafia employed is buried in the voting to be slowly picked out. Who voted first, when did they vote, who got killed and so forth.

If you follow astros logic the mafia can sit back, nominate a kill or convert and hope the dice roll of 1/15 hits a townspeople not of their choosing... you get zero info why the person got hit... same for vigilante. if you go 1/15 dice roll the vigilante can only hit random and favours mafia.


ALSO I really feel the table was too important in your collective minds. YOu were focused on who had a vote now who did not. next time i suggest a tabel with all names on it, even if zero votes.

I saw astro vanish, never returning.. I've pointed out where people like afc said they had suspicions but never tested them.

Nozzer would vote at 8:05pm first every time and that vvote then shaped things.


Finally...... I though a lot of guys.... and agian i posted every hour who voted or not....satarted to sit back and wait so see what happened. thats fine but i felt that as guys sat back holding their votes they were still in general applying them to who was on the table.

It would take more than 2 votes to die but people were focusing on 3/4 people and making ti easy for them to die to they spoke more and the more they argued the more suspicions arose for them.

I think had astro been left on the table with 1/2 votes you could have applied pressure... milk you suspected.. why not?

IBWT actually got to vote on him when the vote was on magic and you guys didn't notice this

 

I was pretty overwhelmed on the first day, had to get used to the nuances of the game. And I made a monumental **** up in fingering RHC (my fingers still smell).
By Day 2, a pattern emerged and I wasn't totally convinced Magic was Mafia at all, but the majority spoke.
By Day 3 I had IBWT and Lucaas pretty much nailed down, only real mistake I made by then was suspecting Billy.
Still, I thought the Don was most likely Milk or Nozzer. By Day 4 I went with IBWT to see what the reaction would be, and then 2 things confirmed IBWT's guilt

1) He immediately switched to AFCftw, which anyone who was a townie would know was innocent (pretty high percent)
2) Then arguing with Milk, after he had been pretty much cleared too. (Proving my initial suspicion that he was Don incorrect.)

Very Interesting game, and lots of fun!