You can stop the campaigning now Spurf. I'm sure 95% of Scotland believes in itself and a fairer more honest society - just most of those have a different view to you about the best way to achieve this, at this point in time.
Plus the including of 16-17 yr olds back fired as the majority supported No, which shows all generations wanted to remain part of the UK and its no surprise Glasgow supported Yes, as that is where it was easiest to win cheap votes, stir up passion and get votes from people who where voting on the back of someone elses passion. And one great positive, no longer see these stupid Yes vans driving around.
So now let's have a referendum in England to see if we want to be part of the union or if we want the Scots. Tongue in cheek but wouldn't it be interesting?
Surely the best thing to do is to: 1 - have UK wide policies voted on by MPs from all parts of the UK 2 - devolve the same things to EVERY part of the UK. So England, Scotland, N.I and Wales all get the same. I don't understand why the Scots are a special case.
Your definition of that WY is very different from mine. A country that votes against it's own Independence does not believe in itself 45% understand that. 55% either don't, don't care, or are not able to. Say no to Independence.
What has come across to me on this site (not this thread though) and other social media is that a large section of the Yes vote was a lot down to anti English feeling. Or people who just think change will automatically make their lives better. I do agree with some of Thor's sentiments although certainly not as extreme as he is putting his point across. You only need to see some of the photos of the Yes supporters on BBC or Sky news, it's like Braveheart all over again. I do feel for the Yes supporters like Spurf and King, and hopefully Spurf in particular you can start to see some benefits of us staying together now that the Scots have decided. We have to move on from this now and hoepfully there will not be too much bitterness over the result.
So there will be a political dividend for Scotland (and perhaps England/Wales too) . One economic dividend I would like to see is a "charity begins at home" investment strategy by UK banks. One thing that came out of the financial crash was just how much the Celtic crab economy of Ireland was being bank-rolled by the UK. How much better would Scotland/Wales business be if most of that money had been invested in them instead ??
Perhaps the UK will eventually evolve as a sort of United States of Britain. More power devolved to the individual states, but the central issues that affect everybody in them, done from the capital, as it is in the USA.
So labour get 330 MPs, the rest get 320, so an overall majority. In England it is 270 Labour and 300 everyone else. How can Miliband be PM if he can't have a majority in England and how can Cameron be PM if he doesn't have a majority in UK. It is not an easy answer.
Cracker, I wouldn't dare repeat some of the wording I've heard from Yes supporters (in real life), wording I would align with people who support the BNP, some of their views on "the polish coming here taking our jobs" or how they treat English workers, are views I find not just offensive, but embarrassing, and no, they don't represent all Yes supporters but I know, by what I see and areas I visit in Scotland then you can branch together certain opinions and they tend to be that of a yes supporter. However I also know people who are passionate Yes supporters that are open minded and balanced, yet these aren't the people that have been making the headlines, its the loud brash supporters that have been "winning" the campaign (if we went by noise) but its the votes that mattered, not noise and that saw the right result in the end.
"Surely the best thing to do is to: 1 - have UK wide policies voted on by MPs from all parts of the UK 2 - devolve the same things to EVERY part of the UK. So England, Scotland, N.I and Wales all get the same. I don't understand why the Scots are a special case." The issue becomes what is "UK wide" and what is not. Defence, fisheries protection are obvious. Some less so (energy etc) . Treasury is always the biggest issue. Taking/giving money on a per-capita basis usually does not match the "structural" realities (some regions have very different needs) .
Once again I have to say it, do not confuse anti Westminster sentiments with anti English. The Westminster propaganda machine has won the day but in that victory some of the lies that were told will become clear. I will highlight them when they happen. The people of England and Scotland need to be united it's the politics that need seperating.
IMO, Labour SHOULD win the next election. But with Milliband at it's head! I'm not so sure. Cameron is next to ****ing useless, but I'd still rather have him than "looks weird, acts weird,.....is weird"
Not only is that a gross distortion of the truth it is really bad news if you are going to continue to spread lies and half truths about the YES. Describing YES supporters as similar to the BNP is outrageous Boss. I remind you that the Orange Order supported NO, these are the bigots I refered to in an earlier post. If anyone bears a resemblance in Scotland to the BNP it is the Orange Order. I have been actively involved in the YES campaign for 2 years in three major towns and the City of Glasgow I have never met anyone with YES who expressed anti English sentiments or was even remotley leaning towards fascism, quite the opposite in fact. If that is your true experience then I wonder where you encountered it and I am not surprised you voted No.
Hey, don't come on here with your knowledge and stuff like that. I just think what i said makes sense and seems fair. I guess it is a little bit like the States as NSIS said. I don't trouble myself with semantics and details
The weird thing is a caricature perpetuated by the likes of the fail and the Torygraph. He's a very bright man and a radical at heart. He will make an excellent PM if we don't fall for these petty points.
Spurf, i'm not comparing all yes supporters to be similar to the BNP, as I know many passionate and balanced yes supporters (which i stated) and I decided to vote NO awhile back. But in my job I get to visit all sides/areas and unfortunately I found in certain areas and certain lines of work there where views I wouldn't repeat and they tended to be of a yes supporter. One of the areas where I found views most balanced was Aberdeen so again its no surprise to see they voted No. But don't get me wrong, I know this wasn't a vote fuelled by hating the English, just the reason the Yes campaign was deemed to be winning, was because of noise and that IMO was noise from nationalists, but overall its been a debate that had to happen so I'm glad it did as its resulting in positive change for Scotland and the rest of the UK.
