What goalposts have been moved? Still waiting to hear how a draw at home against city is a 'vast improvement' on last season.
So expecting a home win against a top side is expecting too much? Lol, as I said, the standards have massively fallen down with some fans at this club. Forgive me, I should've known better, that at Arsenal these days, a supposed 'big' club, drawing with a rival is seen as something fantastic and something to celebrate and be proud of.
They know there's no improvement, they're just trying to come up with whatever fake positives they can think of to put a spin to this. By all counts we have not had a good start to the season, 4 games, 1 win, and yet another opportunity to beat a direct rival goes past us. It's hopeless with them, they'll never just admit to reality, and will constantly come out with this nonsense positive spin to everything.
I was talking in terms of our performances against the top sides. I know we drew will 1-1 at home last season and it will be away that the real test come. But despite your cantankerous take on it, I still think there was enough in that game yesterday to say that it looks like we've improved from last season.
I guess as fans we're going to have another season split between those who see the improvements and the extra dynamism that players like Sanchez and Welbeck will bring, versus the negative doom mongers who will always seek to highlight what didn't go well.
I think it translates to a frustration that , despite the extra dynamism , we seem to be far from potent in the attacking sense. the first half was bereft of penetration , despite some great possession . Both their goals were more down to poor defending , rather than anything resembling " total dominance " by the opposition . The old saying goes , what the point off all the possession if you dont make it count while you can . The team is set up well now, the players are good enough now , lets start seeing some results.......or the negativity will grow. 3 draws is not a good start . We all laughed at Uniteds cr@p start , well now they are ONE point behind us, with a far better GD .
Nice of you to describe the group you place yourself in in a favourable light and the 'other' group as negative doom mongers. What about the third group who praise good play and results but can realistically also see the flaws that a team has? Presumably they don't exist in your eyes no? Any comment whatsoever that isn't positive gets collectively lumped together as doom mongering yes?
The answer is one you're obviously not going to want to hear. We controlled City for large parts of the game. There wasn't any scrabbling about on the backfoot from the off even though we were at home (which was the case with the 1-1 last season). For the first 30 minutes of the game we were in almost total control. That's a vast improvement on last season, when we were getting bossed all over the pitch by them. That control led to us getting goals. It was only because of our defensive frailty from set pieces that City got anything at all from the game. And yes, that's a problem ... but I'd rather have the problem of conceding too many goals from set pieces than not being able to string two passes together when we're up against a top team. That's a vast improvement. But as I said ... you don't want to hear any of that. You can only see the result, and that's what you're going to moan about. So there's really no point in talking to you at all about it.
Well, I think you pride yourself far too much in your ability to decide what are (correctable) flaws and what aren't. Once you realise that the rest of the world sees your analysis as only "possibly correct", then you should immediately realize that it does turn into "Doom Mongering". Only if your point of view is "Definitely Correct", can it be anything else, particularly in a place where, on the whole, you must realize all sane people would be hoping you are wrong. Being an Arsenal fan and hoping the team loses, seems dysfunctional to me.
Positives: Wilshere, Sanchez. Negatives: Being shown up tactically with Navas, Flamini being poor because his positional sense isn't good enough to play at the Emirates on the large pitch. Conceding from a set piece AGAIN, failing to improve on last years result. If you want 4th, you'll be delighted, if you expected Arsenal to buy who they needed and be ready to challenge this season, you will, once again, be disappointed.
The 'rest of the world'? You don't half talk nonsense sometimes TT... OK, most of the time but then this forum would be boring without A87 and Not PC Enough arguing with you, Murray and Piskie... And me piping up because it's fun. I don't hope arsenal lose. I hope we win. But when we don't I don't put spin jobs on anything. I don't want to read excuses for anything. And just so you know, my opinions are always up to 100% correct and therefore can be taken as fact.
Oh for god's sake. There's a very significant difference between thinking that a team will lose, and hoping that a team will lose. You seem to have either missed it, or are purposefully being obtuse about it. Stop with the accusations of people wanting Arsenal to lose.
Well we could all claim to be in that 3rd group. I would and I suspect you would too. I've always pointed out where I think we should improve and I'm sure in turn you'll claim that you praise the positives, so that isn't the issue here. I was pointing out the difference between the positive and negative responses to how fans viewed this game which is a common theme on here, some people are more optimistic and others negative, so they will naturally seek out the incidents that suit their views, but I don't think anybody is ignorant of the bigger picture.
You are putting spin jobs on everything by saying people are happy with 4th place because we aren't certain that we are not going to win. You are spinning disasters. I'm not making excuses for anything. I'm just not accepting your pronouncements of doom. I find them overstated, and superficial. I never accused anyone of wanting them to lose. I was just saying that Cini was writing his pronouncements of doom to an audience that was made up entirely of people who hoped Arsenal would win. To think otherwise would be dysfunctional. See, we finally agree on something!
I think the danger that the trap the more negative posters can fall into, is that wanting to be proved right, they seek out the negatives and can tend to miss the positives. It's probably quite reflective of people's personalities, some people are more optimistic than others and tend to look for the positives, whilst others are perhaps more cynical and tend to look for the negatives. And yes I realise that most of us sit in that '3rd' group of pointing out both, I'm just talking about degrees of.
I agree. I don't troll the predictions thread abusing anyone who predicts a loss. Thinking we are going to lose is something we have all done. Being negative isn't a very attractive quality, but it isn't a big deal. I don't like it when it is justified only by general insults to players or the team in general not really based on anything other than, "The team is **** at the moment", or "That player is useless", or when people start making criticisms of our players which are factually incorrect, or that are based on unrealistic expectations.
Or it's symptomatic of the kind of culture we breed in footballing circles that "being right" is more important to some people than actually talking about football, hence you get ****wads accusing each other of all kinds of **** in the name of meaninglessly attacking people who support the other side (or even support the same side but don't do so religiously enough). Football fans even recognise the behaviour. They've given it their own name: WUMing. You don't see this in tennis. Or snooker. Or Formula One. Or golf. Or, in fact, any sport where it's primarily individuals who compete and not teams. Competitive teams seems to breed a "pack mentality" where people pour their sense of personal identity into a team and as a result end up acting like complete and utter pricks because they think they have to defend the team, like a dog defending a bone. Team sports breed morons who can't have a civilised conversation.
Snooker? A sport??? Anyway, to your point... I think morons gravitating to team sports has anything to do with disagreements and rudeness that can occur. Some of the most intelligent people I know are also the most argumentative and potentially obnoxious.
I think the part in bold is the problem. Some people get so entrenched in their views that it becomes more important than anything else, or it can certainly seem that way. It's almost like some fans are just waiting for us to slip up so that they can hammer on about 'I told you so!' but in the process they actually miss a lot of the positives. As for wumming, I'm up for the banter, I think that's an intrinsic part of football culture. But there's a big difference between a good natured wind up and the inane drivel that the likes of HIAG and Matth post, or the downright rude and insulting personal stuff that you see. Personally I think it's a crying shame that Arsenal fans seem to be some of the worst on here for bitching and insulting each other. I used to think that Gooners were one big family, but this forum has completely changed that view.
