The banks appear to lack confidence in an independent Scotland until all their questions are answered. This may affect their willingness to lend, for example, which, in turn, will affect ordinary people - homeowners etc and businesses looking to grow/re-structure after independence.
SpursDisciple as I posted yesterday Cameron's a Jock, Milliband's a Polish jew and Clegg's part Dutch and a quarter Russian, hardly English any of them ay?
Please don't claim to speak for "the vast majority of English people" I am predominantly English but also have immediate ancestors from Wales and Scotland. I have always considered myself British and have always felt a little uneasy about the superiority complex the English have over other Britons. I fully understand the ideals behind many Scots desire for independence, but as someone of mixed British heritage I will not support attempts to tear apart my own, proud, British identity. I couldn't care less about the economics of it all.
We will all still be British. I think it is completely unfair that Scotland should be denied it's own government for so long. Britain is where we all are geographically. It's like Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Norway they are all seperate self governing countries but they are all still Skandanavians.
Whether it's still geographically Britain or not doesn't make a blind bit of difference to my sense of damaged identity. And there are loads of proud British people with split heritage that will feel the same way. If the vote was open to anyone who would qualify to be a Scottish citizen if they got independence then the vote would be a resounding NO imo. And I know you think it's unfair that Scotland doesn't have it's own government but I haven't dismissed that as because you can't think for yourself.
You said English people don't care. Why are there so many threads on Not606 (including this one) started by English people? I don't mind you talking about it at all, I suspect not many Scots would object to it but please don't tell me you don't care and please don't fall into the trap of thinking that all Scots "traditionally look on the English as enemies", it just makes you sound ignorant. I have plenty of friends who are English, I have family who are English, so they are certainly not enemies and that is by no means the motivation for Independence that people (like you) seem to think.
OK let's stop talking about the economics and talk about the heritage. I can understand your feelings but can I suggest to you that you will not be losing heritage you will be gaining it. The four major countries that comprise the British Isles all have strong heritage both together and seperate. Ireland being the oldest civilisation that brought that civilisation first to Iona in what is now Scotland and then filtering down to England & Wales. If you look back through history it has been a constant change of either seperate rule of being conquered by one King or another. Edward the first perhaps having the biggest input on the make up of modern Britain. Just to say again, because people seem confused by this, The British Isles is geographical not politcal, we are all British and will remain so.
I would argue that 'Britishness' is a concept which only entered into collective consciousness in the age of the Empire, and was the result of us being a unified country at last. Prior to unification there were strong and hostile divisions between the different nationalities, division which would re-emerge were we to disintegrate.
Spurf, I believe your definition of British is incorrect. You seem to describe British as a person from the British Isles. Conversely I would argue that modern-day British people are from Great Britain. As I'm sure you know, geographically, these are not the same thing. I know a large number of Irish people and if I were to describe them as British (Ireland being one of the British Isles) I'm sure i would be lynched
Even though I don't agree with Thor on some of his points, he is entitled to say what he likes (with reason) so you being some over excited scotsman (or woman) doesn't mean you can say "I don't mind", as you're just a random person online, you don't have any say as to who can speak on Scottish independence, even if they are English or reside in Span, just like NSIS is entitled to offer his view. As for the thread being started by English people. My name has been credited with starting the thread, although as someone who lives in Scotland (and has done for 10 years) and has an extremely large Scottish family then the thread has been started by someone who is a resident of Scotland and entitled to vote and the vote on Scottish independence isn't solely for Scottish people, if that was the case every Scotsman (and woman) worldwide would be allowed to vote and there are many people in Scotland who have no Scottish background that will be voting. And yes there are people in Scotland who have little knowledge of why they are voting other then being brainwashed or lead into voting based on nationalist reasons and that I see with my own eyes, I can comment as I know areas of Scotland where nationalist voting is more extreme and again I see it every day yet there are also people who have clear views on why they are voting and believe its in the best interests for Scotland but its a mix of both type of voters.
On the contrary I just believe that Britishness comes from more than being born on a cluster of islands between the North Sea and the Atlantic. To me Britishness is about shared institutions, laws and a collective identity, three things which are dependent entirely on political union.
The establishment view is just that THE ESTABLISHMENT. Who are they? They are the people of 'priveliged' background, many descended from William the Bastard and his followers, the Great Landowners the product of public schools that perpuate the prvilidge position. PLUS the few peasants who make and are 'invited to join 'the club' with an OBE or a Knighthood. Good old John Lennon realised this and sent his MBE back. Why should we worry about this because we live in one the best, safest countries in the world! True but it is also the 4th most unequal in the developed world, with a form of democracy based on perpuating our Establishment. This stunts our progress and hinders many of our brightest children from ever reaching their full potential. Once again in England, University education is becoming the preserve of the wealthy. The window when it was available to all lasted about 15 years before once again the establishment to protect their position closed it shut. That's how they have kept their dominant position for a 1000 years, you have to admire their guille. The establishment has mis calculated on the Referendum and is just realising what is happening in Scotland, hence their rush up here yesterday. They may still win their NO vote but I think now the genie is out the bottle and the Scottish people will not forget about it and just carry on as before. The UK will change now or in the not very distant future. Consider all this, look at the history, imagine what a future there could be for all the countries of the British Isles, Scotland is leading the way to a better future for our grandchildren.
In a nutshell Thor sounds like he's bought into the myth that All Scots hate the English and blame them for all our ills. That's the point I was making. You live in Scotland so you should be entitled to vote, that is common sense, so I don't care whether you are Somalian, Russian or Chinese. People who don't live here (Like Sir Sean Connery) should have no say whatsoever.
The studies reveal that to be a nonsense claim http://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/sep/11/tuition-fees-rise-disadvantaged-students-applying
Its a myth regarding all, but there are people who dislike the English and blame the English and have a general dislike for the English. Usually its light hearted and just banter (or craic as you call it) but it does exist. Plus there are people who don't read these links that you and Spurf are posting and their only understanding of voting comes from reading the Sun or having a chat with people at work. Thats why I believe overall, a very large percentage of people voting Yes, have little idea of why they are voting and the voters who have done proper research are in the minority. And the reason I say that, is because of the people I've spoken to. It seems online and on forums its easier to act clued up as anyone can visit a link or read a site but if you took away the internet and just went with what information was available to voters in handouts, TV debates or newspapers then really its lacking in detail and thats why there are still quite a high number undecided.
A study. Read down the article students over 20 are down by 14% these are the so called mature students and these are generally the most successful students. 14% down, no my claim is not nonsense at all.
DevAdvocate "I like to go a wandering. Along the cliffs of Dover. And if I see an Englishman. I'll push the bastard over." No, you don't all hate the English do you?
