I love Barton, he's another who dances to his own tune. Yes but they would still be 'here' if they voted no. We're not going to cut Scotland off and float it out to sea if they vote yes ....... are we?
Not so much hate on my part as an acceptance of how modern Conservatism has twisted small c conservative values. Just as much as New Labour has abandoned all that was good about the left. Individually like many others I sit in the middle. If it existed I would like a party that represented the modern worker without the need to harken back to ideological defeats or worse the same Nirvana those failed ideological fantasys promised. I'd like a party that recognizes that all with an equal share can not be delivered outside of an authoritarian regime (and even those attempts produced elites). But that doesn't stop us attempting to equal the playing field as much as possible. There is a balance between personal and social responsibility. To be fair to you yesterday I'd agree that our current adversarial system tends to mean we fluctuate between meaningless consensus politics filled with smug politics students turned mps and taking opposite sides of the argument for the sake rather than value of it and calling it conviction..
That want to be Norway. Cut them away and give them a push in the direction of Norway... if we push hard enough Scotland might collide with Scandinavia in a few weeks.
There aren't any positives- unless you consider short-term self-interest one. The overview is that Tory policy will always, always, divide society and increase the gap between rich and poor (currently higher than its ever been, incidentally). They just throw you a few crumbs occasionally to make you believe they're thinking about you- and get your vote.
Like I said, they don't get my vote and neither do either of the other two main parties. Your post sums up exactly the point I was making, people are so set in there dislike for one side or the other in politics they totally ignore any positives arising from the opposite standpoint.
They managed to agree on abortion didn't they... The Casement Park story has reared its head again today... a great example of how bad our elected officials are... mostly because they're elected due to their family (DUP) or having an accent on their surname. Might not happen so viciously in Scotland but the country stands to be divided yes or no.
Think it was Frank who asked earlier why we do not truly have leftist/socialist alternative in British politics. Frank suggested that the death knell of the left was the birth of New Labour and the rise of Tony Blair. I believe the death of Socialism happened much earlier - even before the rise of Thatcher. We, we working people killed Socialism with our lethergy. The bastion of the working class was never really the parliamentary Labour Party is was the TUC and the individual unions. However we allowed the unions to become dominated by Communists who's true mission was to use these institutions to under-mine the economy and dominate the political wing of the Socialist movement. We (those who were alive and old enough at the time) let it happen. We didn't attend branch meetings and quietly nodded through activists to the higher echelons. It was no wonder that Thatcher only had to push on a rotten door with legislation to see the ramparts of the working people collapse just as quickly as the roofs came off our factories! Now unions are considered by the majority of working people as dinosaurs and nasty. When strikes happen the call is no longer for solidarity but for sanctions because the strike effects "my little life!" The left has massacred itself and the Labour Party we see today hardly has a socialist bone in its body. Can new life be breathed into the Socialist cause. Unless we can find away of shattering the present day selfishness I doubt it.
Billy Connolly, not too fussed about the question himself, put it best in an interview with bbc: "They'll get what they deserve, I'm sure" Subtle, but not too cryptic.
Well we let Queens Park Rangers join... might as well let Celtic join too- so they can get relegated. I'd allow Celtic in the PL if it preserved the union.
Dave, I'm not so sure. Things happen in phases, 10 years ago I predicted the death of my village with it sandwiched between fairly recently opened sainsburys complex and Asda etc just 5 and ten miles down each road, same with the handful of other small towns all within about 5 miles. Shops opened and closed for a while seemingly confirming my fears but I've seen the change in the last couple of years, community groups, associations , organised activities,pride in the appearance of the village within that period a boom in small shops and services again and they're all thriving. All during this supposed economic catastrophe. I believe it's because people many of them young are sick of the corporate impersonal and strive to get back or in most cases for the first time a local community. At least some of them have realised waiting on this shower to do anything is giving up. I think we're in for a weird time where the Amazon's of the world may close the clothes shop but people are identifying what they can't provide and its contact with other people! Food scandals etc have people wanting to know who sells then their food etc. I think any new Labour movement has to start again at that level. No grand ideologies or huge impossible visions just basic demonstrable social responsibility. Can't be a bad place to start surely if we believe those in the upper echelons of power dont see us, ignore them until they are the last thing to be dealt with. Think I'm going to look into these associations in my area. Put my money where my mouth is lol...
Do they get to keep that palace like building they built up there. It was another Salmond boast..like North Korea showing United matches illegally they'll just steal the signal lol.....
OK so I'm looking at Socialism as a philosophy. How that philosophy is implemented is up to those who still have the energy to complete the job. For me, at it's heart, Socialism is about fairness through the provision of equal opportunity. People are not equal, organisations are not equal but we can ensure by cooperation that all people and organisations have the opportunity to achieve their potential without robbing others of theirs. So for me a mixed economy is an essential element of socialism. So are the 3 pillars of such an economy - Wealth, Government and Labour. However all 3 of those pillars have to have equal strength. Therefore, for me, the process has to start with the identification and declaration of the vision. To misquote Shelly "We are many, they are few", but we are only many when we have something to bind us together.
Ideal socialism is about provision of equal opportunity. In an ideal world this would mean............ good quality NHS, free education for all (genuinely), acces to water, energy, broadband and other such services (not at the whim of priveate companies) In reality however it means rampant union movements, quangos, protectionism... and so forth and so on. I agree a mixed economy is vital, i feel there is a big case for strong public companies to provide services such as waste disposal (sewers etc) public infrastructure, energy, health, education but that monopolies are bad. I do however think that the feudal landlord scenario that still dominates the uk (as in the landed gentry control vast swathes of land) props up the class system and you have a very much old boys and henley regatta types wafting about which should be the first to go.
Are politicians and businesses using bully method to get No vote?. 1.Scottland cannot use £ after independence. 2.RBS to move HQ out of Scotland. 3.Scotland would need very high currency reserve after independent. #These alone can make ordinary man think.
